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#101075 - 11/16/12 03:37 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: vettdvr]
ytodd Offline
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 03/29/11
Posts: 2674
Loc: Illinois
I have been using Mogas (100% ethanol free, I test) at about a 75/25 mix with 100LL (sometime more, sometimes less)for several months now. The only noticeable difference is in my wallet. Same performance, same temps, same everything for me, just cheaper. My O-300 loves the stuff. I mentioned it before, I just use 5 gallons cans and a shaker siphon to fuel up. Easy, cheap and it works for me.

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#101098 - 11/16/12 06:24 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: ytodd]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Me too but I havent added LL100 for over a month now and use exclusively 87 non ethanol.
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#101139 - 11/17/12 01:30 AM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: vettdvr]
magman Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 1725
Loc: buffalo NY
After nearly 30 years of dealing with Mo-gas my comments are:

1. The biggest problem areas are dirty containers & dealing with

static electricity via proper grounding procedures.

2. It will not "Keep" as well as Av-gas. If your aircraft will

be down for some time it is best to have Av-gas in it.

I have 2 scrap tanks to prove it!

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#101143 - 11/17/12 02:00 AM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: magman]
oilwell1415 Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 1906
Loc: Tulsa, OK
I learned to fly in a 150 on a half mile grass strip and we fueled it with auto gas. After lugging those 5 gallon cans up and down, having to filter the fuel, having to drive to town every time I wanted to fly, etc. for what seemed like forever I can't imagine ever wanting to run auto gas. It's worth $15-20/hr to me not to have to mess with it.
_________________________
1947 North American Navion N8747H. It isn't the fastest, doesn't have the biggest payload, burns gas almost as fast as I can pour it in the tank and requires lots of TLC, but it's cool as hell and that's why we play the game.

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#102134 - 11/25/12 01:07 AM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: vettdvr]
Bio2 Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 11/11/11
Posts: 200
Loc: Iowa
Have you considered a rear carrier for the Excursion that would slide into the trailer receiver hitch. It might provide you an opportunity to carry more fuel, would be outside and could use 12 volt power for a pump or compressor from trailer light electrical harness.

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#103076 - 12/01/12 09:50 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: vettdvr]
Tunria@Keystone Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 11/21/12
Posts: 27
Loc: All Florida
I use "Recreational 90" Which is the only unleaded non-ethanol gasoline available in my area of Florida. I have a fuel flow system and EGT and there is no differences in indications or aircraft range at all even on long IFR XC flights at high altitude. Probably dont use more than about 25% in the total operation. Makes it possible to get to fields with good fuel prices as I cant buy avgas in my fly-in community. Airnav also has a finder for Mogas at airports. Suffolk VA is a good one on east coast.
_________________________
If you really want your airplane to get you there sooner, You should get up and get your coffee, and get into the pilot's seat a half hour earlier! Sooo much cheaper than more horsepower!!

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#103085 - 12/01/12 11:27 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Tunria@Keystone]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Update using 100% mogas and running great. I have found a boat funnel with filter that claims to filter trash water and possibly ethanol from the fuel. I think the ethanol is a stretch. The funnel has dual internal filters and sized based on gpm flow rates. It is to reful boats on the dock with external tanks to keep them running when on the water fuel isn't available. It wasn't cheap around $65.00 incl shipping delivered. SO we will see if this solves the trash issue.

The savings for me isn't $20. But just today the Savings was $28.00 for one day flying. Times 2 per week is $56/week times 4 is $224/ month not what I would call chump change.
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#103106 - 12/02/12 03:26 AM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: vettdvr]
Jim_1 Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 2315
Loc: ON, Canada
The general info I always received was that you couldnt burn mogas in the higher compression 160hp lycomings. Is that no longer applicable if 90 octane ethanol free fuel is used ? can you get an STC for these engines ?
_________________________

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#103107 - 12/02/12 03:36 AM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Jim_1]
Randy Crosby Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 178
Loc: Trapper Creek, Alaska
The short answer is "yes" as far as I can tell. Here are a couple of good references to chew on.


http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/AVwebInsider_Lycoming100_205186-1.html

http://www.autofuelstc.com/

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#103108 - 12/02/12 04:04 AM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Randy Crosby]
Jim_1 Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 2315
Loc: ON, Canada
Thanks Randy lots of interesting details in there. the autofuelstc.com site doesnt seem to have anything for 160hp from what i can find. been searching google and finding some hits but they dont lead to real info. will keep looking. Ive heard that "yes" it can be done, but not sure if there is an STC
_________________________

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#103112 - 12/02/12 04:43 AM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Jim_1]
Shuswap Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: British Columbia
Anyone know of an STC for autogas in the 160hp engine with 8.5 - 1 pistons. Personally, I wouldn't run straight auto, but can see the benefit of various mixtures.

Anybody?
_________________________
1969 172K 160HP Ram

"Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go near the edges of it. The edges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, sea, and trees. It is much more difficult to fly there."

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#103113 - 12/02/12 04:47 AM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Jim_1]
magman Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 1725
Loc: buffalo NY
"Savings" go down the drain if the aircraft

is allowed to sit around too long.

"Long" can be 6 months.

I'll dealing with 2 aircraft right now that

have had 1.5 year old Mo-gas.

Hard or No starting

Low on Power

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#103143 - 12/02/12 05:19 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: magman]
Randy Crosby Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 178
Loc: Trapper Creek, Alaska
Jim,

The autofuelstc.com site, which is Peterson's, list a long list of 0-320 models and about every 172 airframe there is. Did you fill out the fields in their search feature? I would just give them a call and they will give a definite answer. It looks like they have one for my 1958 175 with a lycoming 0-360 180hp. Costs $360.00

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#103147 - 12/02/12 07:26 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Randy Crosby]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8613
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Originally Posted By: Randy Crosby
Jim,

The autofuelstc.com site, which is Peterson's, list a long list of 0-320 models and about every 172 airframe there is. Did you fill out the fields in their search feature? I would just give them a call and they will give a definite answer. It looks like they have one for my 1958 175 with a lycoming 0-360 180hp. Costs $360.00
I plugged in my data 0-360 A4N C-172P, the autofuel STC selector tool allowed me to proceed to the point of purchase, however, I'm going to call and speak with someone first as I did not see the C-172Q listed and that's basically what mine is.

a little while later....

Quoted from AvWeb:

“The airframes we have flight tested which failed the test include the Navion, Musketeer, Piper Apache PA-23-235, 7KCAB, Mooney M-20-C, Piper PA-24 250 Comanche & the Avcon converted 180 hp Cessna 172. Generally speaking, any pump fed airplane not already on the approved list is incapable of passing the flight tests unless substantial modifications are made.”

I wonder if the Avcon converted 180 HP C-172's are considered the same as the PennYan converted 180 HP C-172's ???? Anyone?
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#103148 - 12/02/12 07:39 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Rusty Rudder]
Randy Crosby Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 178
Loc: Trapper Creek, Alaska
It will be interesting to hear what they tell you Rusty. I have an O-360 A1D in my 175 and I'm wondering if the 180hp conversion changes anything in relation to this auto fuel application.

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#103149 - 12/02/12 07:56 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Randy Crosby]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8613
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Originally Posted By: Randy Crosby
It will be interesting to hear what they tell you Rusty. I have an O-360 A1D in my 175 and I'm wondering if the 180hp conversion changes anything in relation to this auto fuel application.
I probably give a call Tue- Wednesday'ish will update when I find out...
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#103436 - 12/03/12 03:50 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Rusty Rudder]
wrecksum Offline
SVP Public Relations
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 2704
Loc: Dominican Republic
Originally Posted By: Rusty Rudder
Originally Posted By: Randy Crosby
Jim,

The autofuelstc.com site, which is Peterson's, list a long list of 0-320 models and about every 172 airframe there is. Did you fill out the fields in their search feature? I would just give them a call and they will give a definite answer. It looks like they have one for my 1958 175 with a lycoming 0-360 180hp. Costs $360.00
I plugged in my data 0-360 A4N C-172P, the autofuel STC selector tool allowed me to proceed to the point of purchase, however, I'm going to call and speak with someone first as I did not see the C-172Q listed and that's basically what mine is.

a little while later....

Quoted from AvWeb:

“The airframes we have flight tested which failed the test include the Navion, Musketeer, Piper Apache PA-23-235, 7KCAB, Mooney M-20-C, Piper PA-24 250 Comanche & the Avcon converted 180 hp Cessna 172. Generally speaking, any pump fed airplane not already on the approved list is incapable of passing the flight tests unless substantial modifications are made.”

I wonder if the Avcon converted 180 HP C-172's are considered the same as the PennYan converted 180 HP C-172's ???? Anyone?


Not much knowledge of this subject but our Penn Yann doesn't have a pump, unlike the 172Q according to the hand book.
Maybe that's the key.
We have a STC for mogas but not tried it.
_________________________
A person without a sense of humour is like a wagon without springs.It's jolted by every pebble in the road.

Cessna 172, C172, C-172, Cessna Skyhawk fan.
www.cessna172club.com

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#103476 - 12/03/12 09:48 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: magman]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Originally Posted By: magman
"Savings" go down the drain if the aircraft

is allowed to sit around too long.

"Long" can be 6 months.

I'll dealing with 2 aircraft right now that

have had 1.5 year old Mo-gas.

Hard or No starting

Low on Power


I'm a bit confused. I run Mogas in my 172 and it runs great. However it flies at least once a week and up to 3 times a week and no less than 1 hr/ week. So far I have seen no issues. On long x countries I have to use LL100.

My EGT is higher on mogas and I do lean it out. I also lean immediately after start on the ground prior to taxi.

I have had no issues at least not yet.
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

Top
#103501 - 12/04/12 01:09 AM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: vettdvr]
magman Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 1725
Loc: buffalo NY
vettdvr

With the amount of flying you are doing the fuel does not get "old".

I have flown with Av-gas that is several years old.

Mo-gas can go bad in as little as six months.

That is why snowblowers won't start in Dec or lawnmowers in May.

Usually you can smell the difference.


As I stated earlier the the other issue is CLEAN containers.

So if you have fresh fuel & clean containers Mo-gas of the correct

type can work just fine.

Top
#103515 - 12/04/12 02:26 AM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: wrecksum]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8613
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Originally Posted By: wrecksum
Originally Posted By: Rusty Rudder
Originally Posted By: Randy Crosby
Jim,

The autofuelstc.com site, which is Peterson's, list a long list of 0-320 models and about every 172 airframe there is. Did you fill out the fields in their search feature? I would just give them a call and they will give a definite answer. It looks like they have one for my 1958 175 with a lycoming 0-360 180hp. Costs $360.00
I plugged in my data 0-360 A4N C-172P, the autofuel STC selector tool allowed me to proceed to the point of purchase, however, I'm going to call and speak with someone first as I did not see the C-172Q listed and that's basically what mine is.

a little while later....

Quoted from AvWeb:

“The airframes we have flight tested which failed the test include the Navion, Musketeer, Piper Apache PA-23-235, 7KCAB, Mooney M-20-C, Piper PA-24 250 Comanche & the Avcon converted 180 hp Cessna 172. Generally speaking, any pump fed airplane not already on the approved list is incapable of passing the flight tests unless substantial modifications are made.”

I wonder if the Avcon converted 180 HP C-172's are considered the same as the PennYan converted 180 HP C-172's ???? Anyone?


Not much knowledge of this subject but our Penn Yann doesn't have a pump, unlike the 172Q according to the hand book.
Maybe that's the key.
We have a STC for mogas but not tried it.
Bet your right on with the 172Q and your having the STC for the 180 answwers the other question, thanx !
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#103675 - 12/05/12 06:17 AM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Rusty Rudder]
Banzai Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 145
Loc: Leavenworth, KS
As many in this thread have said; it's just a pain in the behind to get. But for the cost, I would LOVE to have a steady supply of it for my O-300; but I'm not going to go haul around drums of MOGAS back and forth. I'll pay the 100LL price and call it good.

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#103691 - 12/05/12 12:53 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Banzai]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8613
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Originally Posted By: Banzai
As many in this thread have said; it's just a pain in the behind to get. But for the cost, I would LOVE to have a steady supply of it for my O-300; but I'm not going to go haul around drums of MOGAS back and forth. I'll pay the 100LL price and call it good.
Go ahead !

If I went for the mogas STC, I would neither use "drums" nor would I be hauling mogas "back and forth", it would be one way and in new, handle-able 6 gal plastic fuel cans or a small "boat style" pump system. I probably wouldn't run 100 % mogas or use it all the time, only when convenient for me, and will test it as well, as others do.

With the link provided for non-ethanol fuel, I have located 2 or three places to purchase in each town I travel through to get to the airport... Doesn't look like a hassle to get for me.

I wouldn't mind saving some lute to enable more flying time... (Currently flying 125 to 150 hours per year, no time for stale fuel in my bird !)

To each his own ! (Oh, and, please take no offence, I know it is easy to offend people over a discussion and opinions...)
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


Top
#103733 - 12/05/12 08:24 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Rusty Rudder]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
RR I use the 5 gal plastic cans. Today I bought a fuel filter/funnel that filters trash and water. It was designed for large boats to refill at the dock from portable fuelers. The flow determines the size. The one I bought is sized for 5 gal/min gravity feed. I haven't used it yet but hopefully it will do the job of final filter and prevent water. I always pull about 8 oz of the gas I plan to use and check for ethanol with NO EXCEPTIONS. My engine even feels smoother after 100 gal's of straight mogas no ethanol.


Edited by vettdvr (12/05/12 08:24 PM)
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#103736 - 12/05/12 08:31 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: vettdvr]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8613
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Originally Posted By: vettdvr
RR I use the 5 gal plastic cans. Today I bought a fuel filter/funnel that filters trash and water. It was designed for large boats to refill at the dock from portable fuelers. The flow determines the size. The one I bought is sized for 5 gal/min gravity feed. I haven't used it yet but hopefully it will do the job of final filter and prevent water. I always pull about 8 oz of the gas I plan to use and check for ethanol with NO EXCEPTIONS. My engine even feels smoother after 100 gal's of straight mogas no ethanol.
I'll probably be looking for a system to check and filter fuel soon, did you locate yours(filter/ethanol check) from the boating world?
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#103737 - 12/05/12 08:40 PM Re: Lets discuss Mogas results [Re: Randy Crosby]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8613
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Originally Posted By: Randy Crosby
It will be interesting to hear what they tell you Rusty. I have an O-360 A1D in my 175 and I'm wondering if the 180hp conversion changes anything in relation to this auto fuel application.
Called Peterson, verified the 0-360 A4N in the 172 P so long at it has no electrical fuel pumps. @ $ 360 beans...

Says it is a placard, log book entry by IA and 337 form to accomplish this STC. You and many others are probably already informed, for those who are not, this is what he said.(unless I forgot something in the last hour)
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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