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Topic Options
#97348 - 10/21/12 02:20 PM Opening Windows
John Breitinger Offline
New Member

Registered: 10/21/12
Posts: 2
Loc: KMIC Minneapolis Crystal
I am flying a friend's C-172 after selling my Super Cub. I like to do a lot of aerial photography. Is it possible to install opening windows in a 172?
_________________________
John Breitinger
KMIC Minneapolis Crystal Field
john@headwaters-aero.com
(612) 867-2512

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#97350 - 10/21/12 02:54 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: John Breitinger]
oilwell1415 Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 1906
Loc: Tulsa, OK
Every one I've been in has had windows that open, but I know there are some out there without them. It looks like it has the potential to be a change that costs more than it's worth. I know you can get rear windows with a photo port and there might be front windows that have them as well. That is probably much more cost effective than a conversion to factory style opening windows.
_________________________
1947 North American Navion N8747H. It isn't the fastest, doesn't have the biggest payload, burns gas almost as fast as I can pour it in the tank and requires lots of TLC, but it's cool as hell and that's why we play the game.

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#97351 - 10/21/12 03:44 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: oilwell1415]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Hot summer day in South Louisiana 95+ and 100% humidity,, I fly 100 and have window open and arm resting on it like in car. Cooler and comfy. I shot some pics this week out of the pass window with it open that way no shooting through the plexiglas.
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#97360 - 10/21/12 05:23 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: vettdvr]
BNB-SP Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 555
Loc: FL
This has never really come up for me, always taught to latch up the windows prior to take off. Is there no max speed for windows open flight? The little bracket holding the window from opening too far seems pretty flimsy, can this hold during flight?

---- UPDATE -----

According to the POH, apparently max window open speed is also Vne - never knew that!


Edited by BNB-SP (10/21/12 05:32 PM)
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---------------------
2004 182T
www.BestNameBadges.com | www.BNBPromotionalProducts.com

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#97363 - 10/21/12 05:53 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: BNB-SP]
wrecksum Offline
SVP Public Relations
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 2704
Loc: Dominican Republic
In my story about the bananas I covered the opening window thing for filming.

Just remember;
Do not open above Mach 1.
_________________________
A person without a sense of humour is like a wagon without springs.It's jolted by every pebble in the road.

Cessna 172, C172, C-172, Cessna Skyhawk fan.
www.cessna172club.com

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#97371 - 10/21/12 06:46 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: wrecksum]
Birdman Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 07/05/12
Posts: 667
Loc: Woodland, CA, USA
One of my first instructors had a 152 that he could unlatch the retaining bracket and let the window fly up under the wing. It just stayed there without being secured at all. I don't know how legal, wise or safe it was but it made for great picture taking.

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#97374 - 10/21/12 07:32 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: BNB-SP]
elliot172 Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 608
Loc: Trinidad,co
Originally Posted By: BNB-SP
This has never really come up for me, always taught to latch up the windows prior to take off. Is there no max speed for windows open flight? The little bracket holding the window from opening too far seems pretty flimsy, can this hold during flight?

---- UPDATE -----

According to the POH, apparently max window open speed is also Vne - never knew that!



I recently learned the same thing this summer after coming back from a flight dripping in sweat. It was around 94 degrees on the ground and the cockpit temp was about 105 to 110. The owner of the plane said to me "you would be a lot more comfortable if you flew with the windows open" I was astonished. Never heard of such a thing in a 172. Last time I flew with the windows open except for takeoff. It was GREAT!!!!! Lesson learned.

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#97378 - 10/21/12 07:59 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: elliot172]
California Flyer Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6199
Loc: Groveland, California
Renegade 9 and I flew today, and we (mainly he) had the window open whenever he wanted to shoot a picture out the window. I sat right seat for the last leg of the flight, and opened the window to take a picture, sticking my hand and camera outside for a moment so I could position the camera. It was COLD! Outside air temp was 57, but with the wind chill factor it was a lot colder. I haven't seen how the shot turned out yet.

As the pilot, I have found that having the passenger open the window is fine, but you need more right rudder to compensate for the change in the aerodynamics.
_________________________
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http://www.cessna172club.com


Owner of N291ME, a 2000 Cessna 172SP

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#97381 - 10/21/12 08:09 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: John Breitinger]
RodneyHooverCFI Offline
The Cessna Sensei
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 1646
Loc: Pasadena, MD
Originally Posted By: John Breitinger
I am flying a friend's C-172 after selling my Super Cub. I like to do a lot of aerial photography. Is it possible to install opening windows in a 172?


Do you mean that neither window opens on your friend's 172? I know that for a good while it was a factory option to have the right window open, most that I've seen do open. I haven't seen any single-engine Cessna that doesn't have a window you can open on the left side.
_________________________
Flight Instructor- ASEL and Instrument Airplane
Commercial Pilot with Instrument Rating- ASEL & AMEL
Assistant Chief Instructor at W00, Freeway Aviation.
States I've flown to-

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#97413 - 10/22/12 04:47 AM Re: Opening Windows [Re: RodneyHooverCFI]
IDontFly Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 1341
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Normally the pilot's side opens a couple inches. The passenger's window may or may not open - that was an option. In restart (1997 and later) it was standard.

The bracket which keeps the window from opening all the way has a screw and if this screw is lost the window will open all the way. During flight it will go all the way up and rest against the wing. The disadvantage of the screw being missing is that on the ground the window won't stay open by itself. Also if someone opens the window during flight they need to hold it and let it go gently up to the wing - otherwise it will hit harder than you'd like. And someone will have to reach up there through the hurricane and pull it down to close it.

There is a lot of wind through an open window. It can buffet the camera and make it difficult to use. Expect to shoot at relatively high shutter speeds. It might also be able to wind-etch the lens so I'd use a skylight or similar filter on the front.

Another option, and the only reasonable one if the passenger side window doesn't open is to replace the window itself with one that has a photo port. There's at least one company that sells them and an Internet search will find their websites.

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#97438 - 10/22/12 10:31 AM Re: Opening Windows [Re: IDontFly]
Propduster Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 1105
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
I've had the window become difficult to close as well and found that it was the screw starting to back out a few turns.
_________________________
1963 Cessna 172D C-FPEC

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#97677 - 10/23/12 12:30 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: RodneyHooverCFI]
John Breitinger Offline
New Member

Registered: 10/21/12
Posts: 2
Loc: KMIC Minneapolis Crystal
The pilot's window opens but only a few inches. I am used to Cubs and Citabrias where you can open them all the way.
_________________________
John Breitinger
KMIC Minneapolis Crystal Field
john@headwaters-aero.com
(612) 867-2512

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#97690 - 10/23/12 02:21 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: John Breitinger]
KCDean Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 337
Loc: East Texas
Great Lakes Aero has the replacement windows with photo ports. www.glapinc.com
_________________________
1965 C-172F - N8186U

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#107331 - 12/29/12 06:17 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: California Flyer]
Renegade 9 Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 1082
Loc: SF Bay Area
Originally Posted By: California Flyer
Renegade 9 and I flew today, and we (mainly he) had the window open whenever he wanted to shoot a picture out the window. I sat right seat for the last leg of the flight, and opened the window to take a picture, sticking my hand and camera outside for a moment so I could position the camera. It was COLD! Outside air temp was 57, but with the wind chill factor it was a lot colder. I haven't seen how the shot turned out yet.


I hadn't seen this thread when it was active. Most of my shots "out the window" are to get a clear shot of the scenery below. At an oblique angle, with a large zoom factor, shooting through the glass window can add an awful lot of blurring.

Anyway, on this day, I decided to try a different technique and make the airplane part of the photo:


Rwy 32 by Chris Saulit, on Flickr


Los Banos by Chris Saulit, on Flickr
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#107332 - 12/29/12 06:26 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: Renegade 9]
Glenn Darr Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 1708
Loc: Arizona
one hot day, my instructor and I are about to take off in his 150. He says lets open the windows. About 3/4 of the way down the runway, we are not at takeoff speed. Wind is blowing around inside of the plane like crazy. Anyway, before we ran out of runway, we got the windows closed and the airplane jumped into the air. So, I have never again thought about opening windows!! We probably flew at gross or worse with him and I in that plane.
_________________________
Glenn
1969 172K
KAVQ

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#107363 - 12/29/12 09:27 PM Re: Opening Windows [Re: Glenn Darr]
Pilawt Online   content
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 1889
Loc: AZ
Originally Posted By: Glenn Darr
About 3/4 of the way down the runway, we are not at takeoff speed. Wind is blowing around inside of the plane like crazy. Anyway, before we ran out of runway, we got the windows closed and the airplane jumped into the air.


I fly my Sport Cub with the windows (and sometimes door) open in the summer, and at least in that airplane open windows create a lot of drag. The manufacturer now recommends keeping the windows closed for takeoff, because of buffeting in the cabin from prop slipstream at high power settings.

One day I had the windows open as I landed at a nearby grass strip. After I shut down the engine I realized that my sectional chart was gone. When I got out of the airplane, however, I found it:

_________________________
Jeff Jacobs
C-172N-180
KGYR / Phoenix, AZ

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