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Topic Options
#158379 - 12/01/13 09:23 AM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: IDontFly]
Kinhop Offline
Silver Pilot

Registered: 11/08/12
Posts: 821
Loc: Saskatchewan
Ok, now this is sounding like useful advice. (Sorry for getting off track there.)
_________________________
Craig

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#158407 - 12/01/13 12:37 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: Kinhop]
Birdman Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 07/05/12
Posts: 667
Loc: Woodland, CA, USA
I was thinking along the lines of idontfly between the Kx 155 and the Xl 250. If you kept the Kx 155 you could legally still do a localizer approach if the GPS or the GPS system went down for some reason.

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#158408 - 12/01/13 12:37 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: IDontFly]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
What I saw with avidyne was they were to be installed in garmin preinstalled racks. I don't have these and if I buy garmin they would be installed with the Garmin. Avidyne offered me pre production sales price but only to be installed as exchange for garmins installed. I dont' have any installed so this would not work. Now if AD offers the unit, rack antenna etc it might work but their normal prices match close to Garmin.
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#158411 - 12/01/13 01:04 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: vettdvr]
IDontFly Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 1339
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
The Avidyne IFD 540 can be installed in place of a Garmin 530W using the same tray. I don't have a Garmin 530W. They offered the IFD 540 with a tray and harness for $500 more.

I think the KSN 770 uses a new tray and connectors which don't match anything else on the market. So a new tray and harness must be purchased. I don't know if they are included in the $11,289.00 price being advertised by Sarasota Avionics.

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#158570 - 12/01/13 10:24 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: IDontFly]
Will Johnson Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 124
Loc: Karnes City, Texas
Here's a pic of Bendix King's Demo 182 with the KSN 770 installed.

_________________________
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.” - Leonardo da Vinci

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#158571 - 12/01/13 10:28 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: Will Johnson]
Will Johnson Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 124
Loc: Karnes City, Texas
Here's a close up of the avionics stack.

_________________________
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.” - Leonardo da Vinci

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#158594 - 12/02/13 05:19 AM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: Will Johnson]
PeteH Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 10/12/13
Posts: 99
Loc: Delaware, USA
Gorgeous!!!
_________________________
RADAR Services Terminated, Squawk VFR, Frequency Change Approved, Good-Day!

Pete

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#158601 - 12/02/13 06:08 AM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: PeteH]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
So this stack shows two GPS the 770 and smaller unit.? Are you recommending I keep the XL250 bump the KX155 and install the 750 ?
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#158715 - 12/02/13 05:41 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: vettdvr]
IDontFly Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 1339
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
I'm guessing that the smaller GPS is a KLN 94 and that it is in the plane so they can legally fly in IMC. They can't do that with the KSN 770 yet.

The box above the audio panel is interesting. Maybe it is used to connect the autopilot to one or the other GPS.

One thing I notice is that there is no indicator. I expected to see a KI-209A or something new.

If the KLN 94 and the box at the top were removed it looks like there would be enough space to move the transponder and COM/NAV radio from the right back into the center stack. I wonder if that stack would fit in a 172?

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#159907 - 12/08/13 07:33 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: IDontFly]
Desert Hawk Offline
Silver Pilot

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 919
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
<<<<
Now the original question on how to configure the panel?

GTN 650 w/com and GS
Kx 155 w/no GS
King 76N transponder

OR

GTN 650w/com and GS
G XL250 w/com and not IFR
K 76 Transponder
>>>>

So if I understand it correctly, the main question is: GPS/NAV/COM not certified as backup OR
NAV/COM certified as backup.

Man, Id take the non-certified GPS/NAV/COM hands down. It would give you complete backup for GPS and NAV (albeit not certified).

When the 650 is working (most of the time) you'd have a GPS second opinion (albeit non-certified).

When the 650 isn't working (not very often), you'd have more SAFE options (GPS AND NAV), but albeit, less legal options.

That is, in an emergency, Id rather have a broader range of SAFE but less legal options (GPS AND NAV) instead of legal NAV only option.

my $0.02
_________________________
karl
1975 C172M-180

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#160004 - 12/09/13 07:16 AM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: Desert Hawk]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Originally Posted By: 3km3km
<<<<
Now the original question on how to configure the panel?

GTN 650 w/com and GS
Kx 155 w/no GS
King 76N transponder

OR

GTN 650w/com and GS
G XL250 w/com and not IFR
K 76 Transponder
>>>>

So if I understand it correctly, the main question is: GPS/NAV/COM not certified as backup OR
NAV/COM certified as backup.

Man, Id take the non-certified GPS/NAV/COM hands down. It would give you complete backup for GPS and NAV (albeit not certified).

When the 650 is working (most of the time) you'd have a GPS second opinion (albeit non-certified).

When the 650 isn't working (not very often), you'd have more SAFE options (GPS AND NAV), but albeit, less legal options.

That is, in an emergency, Id rather have a broader range of SAFE but less legal options (GPS AND NAV) instead of legal NAV only option.

my $0.02


Good input. Remember I also have the Garmin A560 with wx as a 3rd GPS. I am also keeping the KISS principle that I don't want it too complex. The XL250 requires more thought than the KX155 to get a freq and more button pushing.
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#160148 - 12/09/13 09:34 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: vettdvr]
Desert Hawk Offline
Silver Pilot

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 919
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Ah, yes. I forgot about the Garmin A560... so that sorta blows my thought process... so never mind <sheepish grin>
_________________________
karl
1975 C172M-180

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#163011 - 12/24/13 08:24 AM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: Desert Hawk]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Ok hit me in the head with the hammer again. Wife is also owner and she wants the GTN 750 not the 650?

$5000 more shocked. So now IF I go that way this is what I am thinking.

GTN 750......King 155 com/nav w/localizer indicator............King 76N transponder that will interface with ADS out to come later.

This would give certified GPS WAAS, which also includes VOR and Glide slope for both ILS and LNAV approaches. King KX155 com/nav also certified for approaches....

Now I don't know if the extra features of the 750 are worth the $5000 on the 650. My wife said the 750 is easier to read, shows more information and for single pilot IMC this is what she wants, easier to use.

Thoughts. The other thought is to not spend the $$ and wait until next year. That just doesn't seem like an option after my discussion with my wife/owner last night.

??????????? crazy
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#163627 - 12/26/13 02:47 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: vettdvr]
Fischer Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 647
Loc: Georgia
I know this doesn't help, but I believe paperwork is or has been pushed through paving the way for less FAA certification red tape on avionics. I believe it has to be outlined by the end of 2014. My sincere dream is that all the great Experimental panels, radios, synthetic vision, engine monitoring, auto pilots, etc will be allowed in our small planes. If not, a compromise at the minimum. This will reduce the costs exponentially to the manufacturers and cut our costs too. So, for my VFR flying, I plan on waiting it out and hope to completely gut my panel and bring the technology up to date within two years for under $10k.

That is my dream, or course....

Bob
_________________________
'74 172M-SOLD
'76 182P-SOLD
'07 Flight Design CTSW

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#163633 - 12/26/13 04:00 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: Fischer]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Originally Posted By: Fischer
I know this doesn't help, but I believe paperwork is or has been pushed through paving the way for less FAA certification red tape on avionics. I believe it has to be outlined by the end of 2014. My sincere dream is that all the great Experimental panels, radios, synthetic vision, engine monitoring, auto pilots, etc will be allowed in our small planes. If not, a compromise at the minimum. This will reduce the costs exponentially to the manufacturers and cut our costs too. So, for my VFR flying, I plan on waiting it out and hope to completely gut my panel and bring the technology up to date within two years for under $10k.

That is my dream, or course....

Bob


I agree totally. Today I had a friend who flies the GWS 530 look at the 750 and 650 demo. After using both he commented the 750 is the only choice for my type of flying. I had already reached that conclusion also but wanted a 2nd opinion. Given he had been flying his Mooney (Is it ok to say Mooney? shocked ) with the 530. Then I showed my routes to Dallas and he was in total agreement I should go with the 750. Now to find how much is in the piggy bank. I might find the piggy empty and have to wait also. I thought the bill that passed was to happen now not at the end of 2014.


Edited by vettdvr (12/26/13 04:01 PM)
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#163774 - 12/27/13 11:05 AM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: vettdvr]
Birdman Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 07/05/12
Posts: 667
Loc: Woodland, CA, USA
Let me get this straight, your wife wants to spend MORE money on the airplane? You are a lucky man vettdvr :-)

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#163791 - 12/27/13 02:33 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: Birdman]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Originally Posted By: Birdman
Let me get this straight, your wife wants to spend MORE money on the airplane? You are a lucky man vettdvr :-)


OK UPDATE, Decision is now made with my partner (wife is taken I found her first find your own) and this will be a shocker and I haven't gotten over it.

My plan was new GTN 650 and glideslope and keep most of old equipment.

Now after consulting with the partner of my plane (wife) I called the avionics shop and this is what I set up.

1) GTN 750 WAAS
2) New 106 Glide slope from Garmin
3) GDL 88 for 2020 compliance with airborne wx and traffic
4) Replace all under dash instrument vac lines
5) Install rear seat dual intercom (com panel is new garmin and will support
6) Complete bi annual IFR inspection.

What will remain is my new this year King KX 155 com/nav and indicator, transponder (about 4 yrs old and compliant for ADS out)

When this is completed the plane will be 2020 compliant

Total $$ you don't want to know but this is my final answer. I have committed to the shop for the work and started breaking piggy banks today.

I will get before and after pics for the site.

What I will be selling is Garmin XL250 com/GPS VFR cert
King VOR and King Glideslope indicator. ADF of course but no one will use one.






UMMM now about that 180 upgrade.


Edited by vettdvr (12/27/13 02:38 PM)
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#163794 - 12/27/13 02:48 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: vettdvr]
Desert Hawk Offline
Silver Pilot

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 919
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Congrats! Sounds very nice. But we need those pictures to fully appreciate the win <grin>
_________________________
karl
1975 C172M-180

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#163814 - 12/27/13 03:59 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: Desert Hawk]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Originally Posted By: Desert Hawk
Congrats! Sounds very nice. But we need those pictures to fully appreciate the win <grin>


Next flight I take panel photos. I will do after also then show the empty wallet photo. sick
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#163825 - 12/27/13 05:01 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: vettdvr]
Bigdoggh Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 1966
Loc: Georgia
Sounds like 25-30k. Wish I could do it. That's about the same setup as I'd like to get.
_________________________
George - 1972 C-172L


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#163928 - 12/28/13 08:24 AM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: Bigdoggh]
KevinMcP Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 1665
Loc: Dothan, Al
That is why one should buy a $25000 airplane and add the $25000 avionics. Why pay $50k for an airplane that one is gonna pull radios out of anyway?
_________________________
"A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others" -Anonymous

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#164102 - 12/29/13 02:01 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: KevinMcP]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Pretty much what I did. $28 plane and $25 upgrade. But ONLY after I have flown for 18 months done annual AND oil analysis to insure the engine is good to go for a while. I do expect an engine in next 3 to 5 yrs but not a big issue.

Panel as it is now before upgrade. The KX 155 is new and it will stay. The transponder is also about 3 yrs old and compliant it will stay. You will note in bottom left of panel is electric attitude indicator. It is only 3 months old also.





Edited by vettdvr (12/29/13 02:03 PM)
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#164496 - 12/31/13 01:44 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: vettdvr]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Update. I have committed to the upgrade.

What I decided was to go full out.

GTN 750
GD 88 for wx and traffic w/ads out for 2020 compliance
Garmin 106 glideslope indicator

Keeping my KX 155 and not using the vor part
Keeping the King vor w/glide slope and having it for the 2nd vor with glide slope for ILS approaches.

This will give me a dual com set up
and vor / w/gs out of the GPS.

The Garmin XL250 GPS w/VHF com will be removed
The ADF will be removed also.

I will also have the 4 place intercom installed in the rear seats and the bi/annual IFR inspection completed.

This is scheduled for Feb 17 and will take 2 weeks. IF wx is bad and I can't fly to the avionics shop it might be delayed but other wise this will be the full upgrade.

Annual will be in April and I am not expecting a big expense this year.



Edited by vettdvr (12/31/13 02:28 PM)
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#164504 - 12/31/13 02:26 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: vettdvr]
ytodd Offline
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 03/29/11
Posts: 2582
Loc: Illinois
You will aslo?

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#164510 - 12/31/13 02:30 PM Re: on Garmin GTN 650? [Re: vettdvr]
ytodd Offline
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 03/29/11
Posts: 2582
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: vettdvr
Originally Posted By: ytodd
You will aslo?

Not be let my wife cut in while typing and ask a question? sick


totally confused now....

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