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#249574 - 06/03/15 10:38 AM Power flow exhaust systems
Newpilotoldplane Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 582
Loc: Michigan
Does anyone have the power flow exhaust installed ?

Found a defective exhaust at annual , contemplating installing one on my plane ,,
Any pilot feed back ?
Looking at around $4,400 installed frown
Is the system worth the money ?
Currently Average 60hrs a yr flying
Thx
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#249577 - 06/03/15 10:56 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Newpilotoldplane]
Willie Offline
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 4728
Loc: Ft McMurray Alberta Canada
I have a power flow that came with my plane
Last year we had two installed on planes here and an improvement in performance was seen
If you try using Search you may find a previous thread on this
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Landing is 1st

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#249587 - 06/03/15 11:52 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Willie]
Willie Offline
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 4728
Loc: Ft McMurray Alberta Canada
I was able to find a thread from last fall , but don't know how to give you a direct link
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Flying is the 2nd greatest thrill known to man
Landing is 1st

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#249596 - 06/03/15 01:30 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Willie]
Newpilotoldplane Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 582
Loc: Michigan
Just read over the thread ,, thx
looks like I will be going with the powerflow ..
Could always use the extra gettyup and go plus the added gph..
Cost difference between PFS and stock was only $2,200 as I need new riser clamps that came out to $98 each for a new exhaust .. Will post feed back after test flight with PFS
Thx
Safe flying !


Edited by Newpilotoldplane (06/03/15 01:30 PM)
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#249608 - 06/03/15 03:50 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Newpilotoldplane]
Peedie Montgomery Offline
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 3474
Loc: Hickory, NC
I'm still waiting for them to make one for the O-300, maybe one day soon!
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#249611 - 06/03/15 04:26 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Peedie Montgomery]
Kansas Zephyr Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Wichita, KS
Originally Posted By: Peedie Montgomery
I'm still waiting for them to make one for the O-300, maybe one day soon!


Amen, brother!
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1961 172B Skyhawk
Private ASEL - Tailwheel/Complex/High Performance

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#249612 - 06/03/15 04:37 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Kansas Zephyr]
Singh Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 396
Loc: MA, USA
All I can say is that PFS was the best improvement I ever added to my C172N,H2AD engine.

last week on a day with OAT=85, I was hitting the red mark on RPMs, meaning 2700, I had never noticed it before.
My static RPM on ground was 2425-2450 range. In other words, A/P is developing extra HP.
There are no used PFS in the market, there is a reason.

Go and buy it today with pre-order, you will save $7-800 if you wait for their delivery. This is how it used to be.
Also, buy the STC for $150 or so, it will restrict your flaps by 30 degrees but give you 100LBs extra useful load.
Which is only for papers, but good to gave.

I used to think that going to 30Degree flaps from 40degrees would be hard, but no issues here.

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#249639 - 06/03/15 08:05 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Singh]
Newpilotoldplane Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 582
Loc: Michigan
Yes I've been reading the reviews from the other thread and I can't wait .. For the installation ,,
I rarely use 40degrees of flaps anyways so no big deal ..

Wasn't wanting to spend the $$ now on exhaust as I was saving for 430w but with the failed exhaust at annual I figured now was the time ,,
Thx for the feedback , I will keep you posted on performance results
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#249655 - 06/04/15 12:02 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Newpilotoldplane]
CerveloRod Offline
New Member

Registered: 10/01/14
Posts: 7
Loc: Washington State
I'd make you a deal on the stock exhaust I removed to add Powerflow to my 172k!

Rod

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#249787 - 06/05/15 07:11 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: CerveloRod]
Newpilotoldplane Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 582
Loc: Michigan
Rod
Wish I would have know that option before I ordered my PFS , didn't really need the upgrade but it will be nice power addition ,,
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#250478 - 06/11/15 07:49 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Newpilotoldplane]
Ross Muir Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 40
Loc: Canberra, Australia
As usual great info here thanks.
Does the power flow significantly alter the cabin noise level? That would be the only thing to put me off, if it was too loud. Grateful any comments on that thanks.

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#250480 - 06/11/15 08:04 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Ross Muir]
Willie Offline
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 4728
Loc: Ft McMurray Alberta Canada
I wouldn't say significantly louder
I road in my buddy's plane before and after . If I didn't know about the Powerflow being installed I wouldn't have known the difference sitting inside
Mind you I was wearing a Bose headset
And my wife says I'm deaf
_________________________
Flying is the 2nd greatest thrill known to man
Landing is 1st

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#250482 - 06/11/15 08:57 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Willie]
Ross Muir Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 40
Loc: Canberra, Australia
My wife says that about me too. But I reckon my hearing's pretty good for an old bloke (62).

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#250499 - 06/11/15 11:32 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Ross Muir]
Newpilotoldplane Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 582
Loc: Michigan
Just got power flow on yesterday and did a test flight ,, 172N
Climb out was noticeably better
Gained 150-200 rpms
Noise was louder on initial start up but once exhaust got hot not much loader
The engine just had a deeper meatier sound to it
Engine seemed to run smoother

Very happy so far
Planning a 3 hr cross country next week so will post some performance data ASAP


Edited by Newpilotoldplane (06/11/15 11:33 AM)
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#250575 - 06/12/15 06:46 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Newpilotoldplane]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
I will probably go to power flow when my fully paid for in good condition exhaust needs replacement, Until then I'll just keep flying it as is.

Just FYI I flew two 3 hr x countries last week with D2J 160 hp w/ about 70 hrs on the new engine. My plane is rigged properly with gap seals. I converted my indicated at 8000' to true and came up with 114 Knots. My AP told me new engine/straight airplane flies better but my GPH was never over 8.0 measured by dipper and pump gallons against air time at 2500 rpm. 70% power.


Edited by vettdvr (06/12/15 06:49 AM)
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Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#250741 - 06/14/15 05:27 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: vettdvr]
jlf Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 54
Loc: Florida, USA
Just completed my first year of flying (and annual) with the PowerFlow system and couldn't happier - 50 hours total. ('76 C-172 M model).

Annual servicing of the PF system requires anti seize be applied to all joints. I was very happy in that I could service it w/o complete removal (air box stays in place) - which saves considerable time in labor.

All in all - very happy with the PF and probably should have done it years ago.

Happy flying!,
-john f

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#252426 - 06/28/15 06:46 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: jlf]
OldTinFlyr Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 66
Loc: West Central Florida
I have the Power Flow System on my C-177B. The plane does the following:
1. Cruises at a higher speed than book - 130 kts
2. Climbs slightly better, I think
3. Burns a little bit more fuel at the same throttle settings - no free lunch.

I have noise canceling headsets - so we don't see much difference in sound.
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#252437 - 06/28/15 09:45 AM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: OldTinFlyr]
Pilawt Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 1924
Loc: AZ
Originally Posted By: OldTinFlyr
I have the Power Flow System on my C-177B. The plane does the following:
1. Cruises at a higher speed than book - 130 kts
2. Climbs slightly better, I think
3. Burns a little bit more fuel at the same throttle settings - no free lunch.


Long-stack Power Flow on my C-172N/180. Ditto on all three points.

Quote:
I have noise canceling headsets - so we don't see much difference in sound.


I do think it makes it a bit quieter. Sounds odd from outside, that's for sure.
_________________________
Jeff Jacobs
C-172N-180
KGYR / Goodyear AZ

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#252703 - 06/29/15 08:01 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Pilawt]
Curious1 Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 1415
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Ditto on most points with my O-360 and powerflow... it burns a LOT more fuel when at WOT on the order of 12-13 gph vs 9-10 gph. Climb is about 30% better (200-300 fpm vs pre-powerflow of 500-800 fpm) above 5,000 density altitude at GTOW. It's faster than before power flow at the same (more economical) power settings.
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"Safety" simply means "the risk is acceptable" - no more, no less.

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#252727 - 06/29/15 08:46 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Curious1]
Desert Hawk Offline
Silver Pilot

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 919
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Curious1
... it burns a LOT more fuel when at WOT on the order of 12-13 gph vs 9-10 gph.


At what elevation are you seeing that burn? Is that measured as a peak with a fuel flow meter, or as an average over a flight?
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1975 C172M-180

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#252787 - 06/30/15 12:14 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Desert Hawk]
Curious1 Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 1415
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: Desert Hawk
Originally Posted By: Curious1
... it burns a LOT more fuel when at WOT on the order of 12-13 gph vs 9-10 gph.


At what elevation are you seeing that burn? Is that measured as a peak with a fuel flow meter, or as an average over a flight?


Climb was from 142 MSL to 9,500 MSL cruise level. Fuel flow on the JPI 700 started out about 13.2 and declined to about 12.5 as I climbed through 1200' (because I reduce power to 25" and 2500 rpm to manage CHT). DA at the airport was about 1500', and at cruise altitude it was about 11,500'. Fuel flow was in the 10-12 gph range as I passed through 4,000 MSL and continued to decline during the climb because I lean with altitude. The climb was at 90-95 mph (about 80-82 kts) and 700 fpm pretty much to the cruise altitude. I continued to get 25" MP and 2500 RPM through 6,000' then the MP started to decline. Before leveling off I saw around 9.5 gph, though I wasn't watching that closely. My focus was CHT and EGT. At 9,500' MP was 23" at WOTand CHT on the hottest cylinder of the carbureted engine held steady at 420-426. After leveling off, and leaning (I didn't reduce throttle), rpm went to 2350 (best vibration set when prop was last balanced), the hottest CHT was around 408-412 and the coolest CHT was 375-380. Fuel flow was still about 6.7 gph. I had a headwind initially, so didn't pull the power. After crossing the Cascades I pulled the power back to 20", maintained 2350 rpm, and re-leaned. Fuel flow dropped to 6.2. Average fuel consumption for the entire 2.7 Hobbs flight was 7.96 gph.
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"Safety" simply means "the risk is acceptable" - no more, no less.

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#252822 - 06/30/15 05:15 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Curious1]
Aerodon Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 139
Loc: BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Curious1
Ditto on most points with my O-360 and powerflow... it burns a LOT more fuel when at WOT on the order of 12-13 gph vs 9-10 gph. Climb is about 30% better (200-300 fpm vs pre-powerflow of 500-800 fpm) above 5,000 density altitude at GTOW. It's faster than before power flow at the same (more economical) power settings.


I don't mean to be too critical, but I don't think these numbers are credible. Its not possible to go from 9 to 12gph (33% increase) by just changing the exhaust. It can't be faster at the same power setting?

I have experience with 180hp C172's with and without power flow. It has its advantages and disadvantages, which I have posted about before. Bottom line is that it is a free-er flowing exhaust. So starting point is less power wasted for a given amount of fuel. You can therefore turn the prop a bit harder on the same fuel and climb a bit better or go a bit faster. Or you can throttle back and go the same speed as before on a little less fuel. I have just not seen the sort of fuel flow increase you are talking about. But a 180hp can easily burn 14gph with or without a power flow, but that is basically going into cooling not necessarily more power.

My book shows an O360 can do 16.5 gph at 2700 rpm. Thats probably a test stand number with a minimal exhaust.

Don

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#252826 - 06/30/15 05:24 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Aerodon]
Mark Y. Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 531
Loc: Mundare, Alberta, Canada
Does sound weird. Looks like he has a constant speed prop added into the mix as he mentions manifold pressure

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#252850 - 06/30/15 08:55 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: Mark Y.]
SunDog Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 307
Loc: Maryland
We have a manifold pressure gauge on our fixed pitched 160 HP, with electronic ignition, engine analyzer (CHTs & EGTs) and PowerFlow. Below 23.5 inches, lean as much as you want. 23.5 and above, full rich.

Some of our guys stay pretty high (portable oxygen high) on long trips. I think we average about 7.5 per hour, on a plane used mostly for travel. So the 7.9 sounds spot on, as described

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#252851 - 06/30/15 09:18 PM Re: Power flow exhaust systems [Re: SunDog]
Curious1 Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 1415
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
FWIW, the engine is a mid time O-360-A1A, constant prop, powerflow, and K&N high flow air cleaner. The numbers 'is what they is'. If you disagree with fuel flow numbers you'll need to take it up with JPI, since it's their instrument that provided 'em.
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