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#16507 - 12/14/10 10:10 PM Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust?
w wicker Offline
New Member

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Texas , Bexar, San Antonio
Our 1975 M model is coming up for overhaul and we are trying to determine if an upgrade to 160 hp and adding the powerflow exhaust system is worth the cost.

Opinions are all over the board. A local FBO says their upgrade to 160hp with the powerflow exhaust enables their 172 to stay up with their 182. Several other reports say the increase in performance is minimal. Pen Yenn say you get about 3 mph more for each the 160hp increase and adding the powerflow....but no increse in weight and about 100fpm in climb rate.

I am looking for actual in field, pilot behind the yoke information.

Thanks for your input.

W Wicker San Antonio

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#16508 - 12/14/10 10:13 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: w wicker]
Sky King Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 111
Loc: X
I am interested in this also. I am looking at a plane with a 160hp Ram conversion.

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#16513 - 12/14/10 10:32 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Sky King]
Cessna Dude Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6628
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Welcome to the Club Wicker! Good to have a fellow San Antonian in the ranks. What part of town you in?
_________________________
Due to certain economic uncertainty, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.
Cessna 172, C172, C-172, Cessna Skyhawk fan.
www.cessna172club.com



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#17264 - 12/28/10 01:32 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: w wicker]
jdbar Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 110
Loc: New Hampshire
W Wicker,
Our clubs 1972M has the 160 RAM conversion and the power-flo exhaust.
I have gone up about 200-300 fpm on the climb performance and an extra 10-15 knots.
The fuel burn is about 6.8/hr when leaned and running to best economy.
I would recommend this conversion.

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#17283 - 12/28/10 09:05 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: jdbar]
BBreeding Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 203
Loc: Harrington, Delaware
Penn Yan can convert your O320 to an O360-A4M 180 hp. they did mine and I got increase gross weight to 2550 lbs. flaps limited to 30 degrees. useful load 1050 lbs and rate of climb with me and full fuel >1000 ft per min. fuel burn is generally around 9.5 gal per hour. not a lot faster but will get up and climb and I don't worry about having all the seats filled.
_________________________



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#17302 - 12/29/10 02:23 AM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: BBreeding]
Babyman Offline
Club Sponsor
Second in Command

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 172
Loc: Greenville, Tx
That's what I'm talking about---having all seats filled. What would seals and vortex generators do for increased passenger load? Roughly how much does it cost for the conversion?
_________________________
"One of the main objectives of this Club is to foster friendships and learning in a spirit of friendliness and accommodation," CD




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#17311 - 12/29/10 08:01 AM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Babyman]
RickG Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 389
Loc: Durham, NC
Originally Posted By: Babyman
What would seals and vortex generators do for increased passenger load?

Nothing. They may increase the handling performance of the plane at slower speeds (and / or reduce drag), but you cannot get around the fact that "useful load" is still about LBS and not exceeding the allowable gross weight of the aircraft. As others have indicated, that involves starting with less stuff inside the aircraft (or fuel), or adding a more powerful engine.
_________________________
http://www.lakeridgeaero.com
8NC8 Durham, NC

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#17576 - 01/02/11 07:30 AM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: RickG]
atmcpm Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 50
Loc: EQY
I am years away from an overhaul, but no doubt if I needed on and IF I intended to keep the 172 for a good while and IF I could swing the cost I would upgrade to the 180hp O-360 WITH a Powerflow. I think that would make for a pretty sweet ride.
_________________________
Andy


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#17661 - 01/03/11 08:39 AM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: atmcpm]
wrecksum Offline
SVP Public Relations
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 2704
Loc: Dominican Republic
I flew the 160 and the 180 R and SP models recently and they don't come close to my 172P PennYann 180 conversion.
It just feels "right" with this engine and the light airframe.
Break the bank and get a 180HP!!!The M model is a good candidate.
_________________________
A person without a sense of humour is like a wagon without springs.It's jolted by every pebble in the road.

Cessna 172, C172, C-172, Cessna Skyhawk fan.
www.cessna172club.com

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#17737 - 01/04/11 04:18 AM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: wrecksum]
Nightowl Offline
Club Sponsor/Speed Demon
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 1826
Loc: Northwest lower Michigan
I'll second wrecksum's comments. The 180 conversion with the lighter airframe of the legacy 172s really gets the job done. Definitely outperforms the newer R and SP models.

John
_________________________
CP-ASEL-IA
'77 C172N, AirPlains 180 hp conversion

Our sigmap has been flown entirely using aircraft with capabilities at or below those of the C-172.


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#17753 - 01/04/11 09:47 AM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: w wicker]
Bill Rourke Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 61
Loc: Peachtree City, Georgia
Originally Posted By: w wicker
Our 1975 M model is coming up for overhaul and we are trying to determine if an upgrade to 160 hp and adding the powerflow exhaust system is worth the cost.

Opinions are all over the board. A local FBO says their upgrade to 160hp with the powerflow exhaust enables their 172 to stay up with their 182. Several other reports say the increase in performance is minimal. Pen Yenn say you get about 3 mph more for each the 160hp increase and adding the powerflow....but no increse in weight and about 100fpm in climb rate.

I am looking for actual in field, pilot behind the yoke information.

Thanks for your input.

W Wicker San Antonio


I am finishing the installation of a 160hp installation on my 150. The reason I went this route was two fold: 1) virtually no extra cost (except for purchasing the STC) 2). increased performance, especially considering the reduced fuel consumption.

I have attached a Piper owner's comments below:

"My 1977 Cherokee Cruiser now has a 160hp O320-D3G (Penn-Yan/Ram STC), in place of the original O320-E3D, 150hp low compression engine, (earlier Cherkee 140s used the O320-E2A). The compression ratio on the 150hp is 7:1, the 160HP is 8.5:1. Specific fuel consumption for 150hp is about .53#/hp/hr, while the 160hp higher compression has about a.47#/hp/hr, about a 13% lower consumption for the higher compression engine. Using the original 58" pitch prop, there will be a noticable increase in climb rate, but no difference in cruise at the same cruise RPM, but a measurable decrease in fuel burn (13%?). Going to a 60" pitch prop will keep the climb advantage, but will also increase the cruise speed by a few knots, still with lower fuel burn. My Cherokee, on a recent 700NM trip at 7500', burned about 7.6 GPH for the 6 hour trip. there are several 160 hp conversions available, depending on the engine in your Cherokee. The best, in my opinion, is the AMR&D conversion which allows you to use much steeper pitch props. the RAM is limited to 58 or 60" pitch props, limiting the cruise speed potential. I have been quite satisfied in the several years I have been using it first with the 58" then the 60", for me 60 is better. My Cruiser has flap and aileron gap seals, fancy pants, Metco Tips as well as the 160 engine w/60" pitch prop. Loaded with 36 gallons and a 170# pilot, it climbs at about 1000'/min, and will cruise close to 120kt at 75% power. "
_________________________
Bill Rourke
www.airplanepanels.com

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#19503 - 01/15/11 02:50 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Bill Rourke]
Glenn Darr Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 1708
Loc: Arizona
my question is for those with the 150hp, O320-E2D engine that have had the Powerflow exhaust system installed. Have you had better performance than before the installation? What about cylinder temps? Have any of you had the prop repitched for a better cruise speed?
Thanks for any info as I am planning (saving my nickels!) to do this mod.
_________________________
Glenn
1969 172K
KAVQ

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#19654 - 01/16/11 12:38 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Glenn Darr]
DKirkpatrick Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 103
Loc: Arkansas
does anyone out there make a set of headers for a 172 engine - powerflow exhaust is pricey, and it seems like the engine could just pick up alot of hp by just making a set of headers that were engineered right and didn't restrict the exhaust, etc. i'd appreciate some response with this. thanks.

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#19657 - 01/16/11 12:59 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: DKirkpatrick]
Sky King Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 111
Loc: X
How much is the powerflow exhaust for the 172? I want to add that. How do you do the prop change out? Buy a new one or swap out the old, exchange?

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#19675 - 01/16/11 06:42 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Glenn Darr]
atmcpm Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 50
Loc: EQY
Originally Posted By: Glenn Darr
my question is for those with the 150hp, O320-E2D engine that have had the Powerflow exhaust system installed. Have you had better performance than before the installation? What about cylinder temps? Have any of you had the prop repitched for a better cruise speed?
Thanks for any info as I am planning (saving my nickels!) to do this mod.


I can't completely answer your question but...my 1976M came with a long stack Powerflow that was added by the previous owner. The airframe was relatively lightly used (1900TT) and never a trainer and without any damage history (i.e. relatively straight airframe). With myself, one other, and full fuel in the factory long range tanks, I routinely see 1000fpm climb through 3-4000 feet. After three years of owning this plane it is still hard for me to believe but I see it without exception, even in the summer. I cruise with IAS of about 116-117 at 6-8000ft at 65-75% power. I don't know how she did before, but I've not flown another classic 172 that performs as well - at least in climb.

I would not think twice about the Powerflow. FWIW Aviation Consumer called it the best performance improvement for the dollar...

Andy
_________________________
Andy


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#19678 - 01/16/11 07:14 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: atmcpm]
Sky King Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 111
Loc: X
That's big numbers.

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#19906 - 01/18/11 11:57 AM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Sky King]
Rob 355 Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 08/08/10
Posts: 29
Loc: northville, Michigan
When I rebuilt my engine, an O-320E2D, I went with the RAM 160hp STC, a PowerFlow exhaust, a Chalenger Air Filter and the best bang for the buck, I sent the new cylinders out to LyCon in California and had them port/polished and flow matched at $250.00 each.
With these mods LyCon estimated the engine output at around 195HP. An instructor I was flying with said the school he flies with has newer 180HP 172s and that mine out preforms them.
One thing to watch out for is a crankshaft AD for corrosion on the prop flange. The 150hp engines are exempt but using the RAM STC the crank will have to be inspected and if corroded beyon tolerance, it will need to be replaced.
Rob355
1973 172m
_________________________
1973 172M Frackenhawk 195hp 8.50s mains 7.00 nose

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#20442 - 01/21/11 10:29 AM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Rob 355]
Glenn Darr Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 1708
Loc: Arizona
Thanks for the information. Quite and engine you have there, Rob!
_________________________
Glenn
1969 172K
KAVQ

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#21774 - 01/28/11 10:13 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Glenn Darr]
Glenn Darr Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 1708
Loc: Arizona
I was looking at the PowerFlow website, and I see that if I order by the 31st of January, and take delivery of system at the end of March, I can save $400. Plus, some more by changing over to a Challenger air filter system. Sooooooo, a new Powerflow exhaust system is in the future for my plane. I think this will be a good thing! I'll let you all know.
_________________________
Glenn
1969 172K
KAVQ

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#22428 - 02/01/11 07:31 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: BBreeding]
Slips With Flaps Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 10
Loc: Tejas, USA
Originally Posted By: BBreeding
Penn Yan can convert your O320 to an O360-A4M 180 hp. they did mine and I got increase gross weight to 2550 lbs. flaps limited to 30 degrees. useful load 1050 lbs and rate of climb with me and full fuel >1000 ft per min. fuel burn is generally around 9.5 gal per hour. not a lot faster but will get up and climb and I don't worry about having all the seats filled.


That's how I'm leaning at the moment. What'd it cost you to do that?
_________________________
SLIPS WITH FLAPS NOT RECOMMENDED

COMM - ASEL/ASES/AMEL w/ IR; IGI

States where I've landed an airplane:


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#22681 - 02/03/11 03:44 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Slips With Flaps]
Glenn Darr Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 1708
Loc: Arizona
I am having the Powerflow exhaust system installed on my 172k for a bit less than $4000. My propeller is a McCauley 7653. That is a cruise prop, so, I am not going to have it repitched. Also included in my price is the Challenger Air Filter kit. This takes in more air than the Brackett Filter that is now on the plane.
_________________________
Glenn
1969 172K
KAVQ

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#22710 - 02/03/11 05:56 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Glenn Darr]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8363
Loc: Fair Haven New York
"That's how I'm leaning at the moment. What'd it cost you to do that?"

I have one of those, I dont run full throttle, and get a solid 8.0 GPH. Cost thereto, not exatly sure, last guy bought my 180 upgrade, but, I live close to PennYan, NY, have frequented that field and it is my understanding one can spend upwards of 30 K by the time it is all over...

Maybe someone else has a closer, better figure for the 180 upgrade ? PennYan Aero

Penn Yan Aero 1-800-727-72301 315-536-2333

http://www.pennyanaero.com/

Bet they would be glad to chat with ya, if you get a solid price, let us know will ya.
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#22715 - 02/03/11 06:47 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Rusty Rudder]
November X-ray Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 2303
Loc: Brookshire, Texas, USA
Google and Check out Quietaviation for a soon expected STC that uses a GM LS Series V8 engine,,,,looks fairly promising and the auto fuel at 5 GPH is a big plus too!
_________________________
N. X.




www.cessna172club.com

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#22720 - 02/03/11 07:18 PM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: November X-ray]
Cessna Dude Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6628
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: November X-ray
Google and Check out Quietaviation for a soon expected STC that uses a GM LS Series V8 engine,,,,looks fairly promising and the auto fuel at 5 GPH is a big plus too!


And here it is! http://www.quietaviation.com/

Sounds promising.
_________________________
Due to certain economic uncertainty, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.
Cessna 172, C172, C-172, Cessna Skyhawk fan.
www.cessna172club.com



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#27314 - 03/05/11 07:51 AM Re: Overhaul time is here - upgrade to 160hp? add power flow exhaust? [Re: Cessna Dude]
Glenn Darr Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 1708
Loc: Arizona
My Powerflow exhaust system has arrived at the shop where I get my work done. I guess I will be put on their schedule for sometime next week. I'm hoping anyway. This time of year they are busy. I also try to get my "major" work done in Feb. and March. I will let the forum know how this thing is working when it is installed.
_________________________
Glenn
1969 172K
KAVQ

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