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#26920 - 03/02/11 07:13 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Don Tedrow]
vpstone Offline
Club Sponsor
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 08/10/10
Posts: 552
Loc: Havre-De-Grace,Md,USA
Man wanted to throw fisticuffs (hands) because of #1 NORDO,#2 aircraft got in his way? I think I'd of told him to act like a pilot! Sounds like he's the one who needs to be checked out!
_________________________
I want to die in my sleep just like my Grandfather did, Not shrieking and screaming like his passengers.

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#26925 - 03/02/11 07:49 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: vpstone]
MMfly Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 39
Loc: Canada
My other airplane is an Aeronca 7ac without a radio. I most always fly overhead about 1000ft above circuit hight and then descend on the inactive side well clear of the airport. Then enter on a midfield crosswind. VFR KEEP YOUR EYE OPEN and assume no one can see you.

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#26927 - 03/02/11 07:53 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Don Tedrow]
Peedie Montgomery Offline
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 3466
Loc: Hickory, NC
YA I'm with RR on this one that is the way I was taught. Better safe than sorry. I also think too much of my big ASS to be that dumm.
_________________________
Ya'll Fly Safe and Often

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#26970 - 03/02/11 09:59 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Peedie Montgomery]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8418
Loc: Fair Haven New York
My official report to NASA, FAA and Apt.Manager (kinda long):
On March 1,2011, @ 3:15pm eastern standard time, I Rusty Rudder was out flying and on the return trip to KFZY with right seat passenger, Michael H-man, on a pleasure flight in VFR conditions with unlimited ceiling and 10 + miles visibility with light and varriable wind. While approaching from the east to the west at 10 statue miles out, I made a call to the KFZY CTAF on 123.0, indicating I was inbound for landing KFZY, no response from anyone. I mentioned to my right seat passenger to view the steam emmitting from the Nine mile nucluear plant cooling tower ten miles north that the steam was rising vertically without any other direction, as I dialed in the radio frequency ASOS of 119.275, KFZY, listened to the report, set my altimeter and noted, light and variable wind being reported from KFZY, adjusted my audio panel to stop the ASOS broadcast.
While continueing my approach from 7 miles out, I made a call on 123.0 CTAF, indicating I was inbound for a streight in approach to Rwy 330, any traffic in the pattern please advise, no response. From 5 miles out, I made a call to the CTAF @ KFZY on 123.0, that I was inbound on a steight in approach for runway 330, any traffic in the pattern please advise, no response. At 3 miles I announced on the CTAF of 123.0 that I was on streight in final approach for runway 330 while decending, no response. At approximately 50 feet AGL, on final approach for runway 330, an airplane, a low wing experimental, who I later learned belonged to Allen Mckeen and was flown by Allen McKeen, passed by above me 50 to 100 feet and to the left of me, or, to the south side of me, 300 or 400 feet horizontally. I announced on the CTAF if the landing traffic in Oswego Co. had a radio, because he just about collieded with us, no response.
Landed the airplane, cleared the active, cleaned up the airplane and announced my intentions of taxiing to hangar Brovo, and did so. Upon pushing the plane back in the hangar and securing it appropriately, Mr. McKeen sped up to the front door of my hangar in his truck and approached me in an aggressive manor and began a heated argument with regard to him establishing an active runway. I asked Mr. McKeen if he heard my radio transmissions from 10, 7, 5 and 3 mile out, he said yes, I said and you igonored them and continued on course to land Rwy 150, 180 degrees from my called out intended landing runway, he said yes. He reitterated that he had established an active runway of 150, and indicated the wind was favoring 180 degrees. I explained to him there was no wind and according to ASOS, what wind there was, was light and varriable. He said, well, the wind sock was sitting at 180 and that is what established his theory of "the active runway". I said, possibly that might have been where the wind sock parked itself last, however, the ASOS indicated wind light and varriable and you did not confirm a conversation with me, so, you established nothing. He then asked me to check my radio, in which I did, I contacted Unicom on 123.0 verifying a radio check @ approximently 3:30pm EST with the employee at Oswego Co. airport, I believe I was speaking with Dar, the gal I always speak with when I perform my radio checks each and every time I fly. I heard her loud and clear, as she acknowledged me loud and clear as well. I then reiterated to Mr. McKeen the result of that transmission.
I appologized to Mr. McKeen at this point in time, not because I thought I was wrong, but for an unfortunate incident, and an attempt to diffuse the situation. I further explained that had I been him, I would not have proceeded on a collision course putting myself and the other aircraft in harms way. Mr. McKeen, obviously not saticefied with the outcome of this conversation or my appology, immediately proceeded back to the Oswego Co. Office to further sell his story to Oswego Co. Employees. And, when, not saticefied with the outcome from the Oswego Co. employees, he proceeded to Jeff V, FAA Safety Team Representative and owner of the Flight School. Who, I have had many experiences with while flying in the KFZY vacinity and spoken with through radio transmissions countlessly. All of which we have had an excellent repore with by identifying our positions giving courtesy to, and acknoleging the presence of each other.
In the name of safety and I am a faithful follower of safety as my record will reflect, there has not been a week gone by lately that I have not been enrolled or attended a safety seminar or wings program. And on a further note, and daily basis, try to advance my knowlege of safety and practicing safe flying skills daily in my quest for information on the subject of flying.
I do not agree with Mr. McKeen's decision to listen to my transmissions via the CTAF, admit to hearing my transmissions and ignor them to the point of nearly causing a head on collision.
I do not agree with Mr. McKeen's belief that he established an active runway, who did he establish it with ? there was no communication from him to me, only from me to him. I, therefore, established the active runway as I was at a lower altitude than him and he was privy to my information and intentions and I not his intentions, evidently.
I do not agree with Mr. McKeen's belief that he had priority for landing Rwy 150 after listening to my radio transmissions from 10 miles on in, not communicating with me or having engaged in a conversation with me had no right to continue on a collision course with the information he was in possession of.
I do not agree with Mr. McKeen's story that other airplanes were in the vacinity, as it was only him who I could identify in the pattern at 3:15pm eastern standard time as he flew over us and nearly caused a mid-air collision. There might have been earlier, but, not at 3:15pm.
I believe I was the only and lowest aircraft in the vacinity, I believe I had priority over Mr. McKeens aircraft and I believe Mr. McKeen acted recklessly by hearing my transmissions and continueing on a collision course, after being notified, in a total disregard for the information he possessed, acting from ego in the name of recklessness as opposed to prudence.
As stated above, this was an unfortunate incident, I appologized to Mr. McKeen in an attempt to diffuse his animosity, and, evidently, that was not sufficient to Mr. McKeen as he continues to belabor his "I'm not wrong" attitude. This type of attitude kills people and I hope it is not me and maybe addressing this incident with Mr. McKeen and/or both of us will save his life as well as mine.
I believe I have learned from this occurance in that, calling the UNICOM on CTAF out 7 or 10 miles to get an airport advisory would be an advantagous act. I believe, even though a streight in approach and landing is within FAR's, without talking to UNICOM might not be the best way to safely land at an airport. I believe, if I ever hear someone calling out their intentions and I cannot establish positive communication with them, I will alter my course until we are clear of each other.


Edited by Rusty Rudder (03/02/11 10:14 PM)
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#27056 - 03/03/11 05:40 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Rusty Rudder]
MMfly Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 39
Loc: Canada
Good report Rusty Rudder. Being able to discuss this on a forum is very helpful to everyone who has or will one day be in the same position as you.
Don't let this guy ruin a great day flying.

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#27096 - 03/03/11 08:16 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: MMfly]
RickG Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 389
Loc: Durham, NC
Given that KFZY has an ILS approach on 33, I would imagine its not uncommon for traffic on 15 to be periodically "interrupted" by traffic coming straight in on 33 (if winds are not a factor). With McKeen local to the airport, you'd think he would fly with heightened awareness of the potential for straight in approaches.

There are lots of references in this thread to the term "uncontrolled airports." I've been reminded on many occasions (including by FAASTeam members), that an airport is either towered or non-towered. They are all controlled, either by ATC (in a tower), or by ourselves as we self-announce or follow standard procedures to create control in the pattern and on the ground.

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#27099 - 03/03/11 08:33 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Rusty Rudder]
n1acguy Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 55
Loc: S. Ca. WHP
I feel upwind entries at TPA are sometimes safer than the recommended midfield crossing at +500.
At 2 airports that come to mind, the +500 midfield entry puts me in a position where I'd be making a descending right 270 in a spot where gliders are making circular descents in a tight area due to terrain. Not comfortable in a high wing. An upwind entry gets me flying the pattern and gives me a good view of traffic.
I learned a very valuable lesson about large untowered airports early on in training while on a duel cross country. I was making the +500 midfield crossing not taking into consideration that the airport was one that had 2 separate TPAs for different types of aircraft. We heard a transmission on the unicom in very broken english that we couldn't understand other than the word 'downwind'. We couldn't see any traffic, but heard the same pilot transmit something similar again, and again only making out the word downwind. Then we spotted a very fast flying turbine aircraft closing on us fast. The instructor grabbed the controls and made an abrupt maneuver to avoid the collision path we were on. We didn't come that close, but if we didn't see him and just kept our present heading, we very well may have had a collision. I'm sure it was probably a case of him not understanding us and our intentions, and us not being able to understand him.
After the pucker factor subsided, I realized he was right where he should have been and at the TPA for his type of aircraft. By making a +500 midfield crossing we were right at the turbine aircraft TPA. I felt at the time that the instructor should have picked up on it knowing how I planned to do the entry, but I looked at it as a lesson learned (be real careful at untowered fields) and considered myself lucky.
My point is that one size doesn't necessarily fit all when it comes to pattern entry, but everybody can't just be doing their own thing either. I have done straight in entries in the past but don't anymore as a rule. I can think of one instance where a straight in approach might actually be safer.
On another note along these lines, it isn't uncommon in this area for some pilots to go specifically to airports that don't have towers and to pick routes that don't require communication with ATC because their english skills are so poor. Sad, but thats the way it is. Radios aren't required at uncontrolled fields.
Sorry so long. Not intending any thread hijack. Keep your head on a swivel and expect the unexpected.
_________________________
My 2˘ YMMV

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#27102 - 03/03/11 08:57 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: n1acguy]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8418
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Thanx, Good point, Townered, non-Towered. This guy seemed to be more about "I'm right" This is the cover letter sent to the local FSDO:
Pursuant to our discussion of March 2,2011, please find enclosed, attached hereto and made a part hereof, my statement in written form and the sworn Affidavit of my passenger, Michael H-man.
This was an unfortunate occurrence and should be a learning experience by all parties concerned for future avoidance. Like all other incidents a chain of events ensued that placed my life in danger as well as Alan McKeen's, the pilot of the experimental RV-6.
I am submitting this letter to serve as Notice of my Complaint. And have requested whichever form is necessary to file said complaint. Please forward to the above USPS address or E-Mail to me the necessary application to file a complaint, RustyRudder.com.
As you can read and verify with Oswego County UNICOM I made many calls via radio, in the blind, to announce my intentions and verify no conflicts with my intentions existed. I received no response from any traffic at KFZY. I listened to the ASOS further establishing the current weather conditions and that the radio was operational. I witnessed, and my passenger witnessed, Alan McKeen state that he heard all transmission on my behalf and continued on a crash course without making radio contact with me, regardless of the knowledge he possessed.
I fly out of Oswego frequently, and it is not uncommon to have no airplanes in the air at KFZY. On this occasion, like many other occasions, it is a common approach when the area is clear and I can make certain no conflicts exist, or so it was believed, to fly in direct to 330.
Mr. McKeen portrayed the notion that he has made no contribution to this unfortunate incident. I believe, in any event, when two aircraft are involved each pilot contributes to the “chain of events” in one way or another. It is my sincerest hope that we can all learn from this, become better pilots and move on in a friendly fashion.

Respectfully,
RustyRudder (aka.me0
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#27103 - 03/03/11 08:59 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Rusty Rudder]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8418
Loc: Fair Haven New York
This was sent to me by the FAAST team airport rep:
Dear Mr. Rudder,

I am the owner of the flight school as well as the FAA Safety Team Representative at the Oswego County Airport. I am contacting you because of an incident that was reported to me that occurred on March 1, 2011. It was reported to me that at approximately 3:00 pm, runway 15 was the active runway and other aircraft were in the pattern doing take offs and landings on 15 when you executed a straight in approach and landing on 33 causing an aircraft on approach to 15 to go around.

As the local FAASTeam Rep, one of my responsibilities is to identify safety issues and attempt to resolve them in a proactive manner. I am reaching out to you Mr. Dodge to stress the importance of using the FAA recommended procedures for traffic pattern entry and operations. They were created so that everyone else operating at the airport can predict what the other aircraft are doing. Although flying a straight in approach is not contrary to the regulations, it does increase the risk of operations at the airport.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the recommended pattern operating procedures. If so, I would be happy to volunteer my time to explain them to you and help you understand them.

Please feel free to contact me at your convenience should you wish to discuss this matter or anything else that will help all of us be better and safer pilots.

Safe Flights,
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#27104 - 03/03/11 09:04 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Rusty Rudder]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8418
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Here is my reply to the FAAST rep, he is offering free ground school and possibly some flight in my airplane, I will want an endorsement as "time served" upon completion, but, hey, what the heck, I am sure I will pick up a tid bit or two and make good terms with this FAAST rep for future relationship:

Dear J,

I accept your invitation to become a safer pilot, how about today or better yet, right now ? I will be up at KFZY at 1:30 pm maybe we can at least chat about
a good time to have some review and learn more safety in aviation, flying and pattern work. You may or not be aware, but, you and I have been flying in
unison for at least a year now and interacting as safe pilots as I have put over a hundred hours in at KFZY in and around the Oswego airport in the last 12
months. I practice safety on a daily basis and further education practically weekly, and still do not know everything after 20 years. I am not going to try to
sell you any stories about who is right or who is wrong, only remember, there are three sides to every story and attitude kills, and that is what I have
noticed in Mr. McKeen's demeanor. And, of course, a chain of events is what "snowballs" creating hazardous situations, not any one particular event or
action, but, a sequence of poor decision making and cue's per say, that may or not be acted upon and this occurrence is yet one more prime example
of the way accidents happen.

Thank you for your support and offerings for a safer airfield, I look forward to learning from your expertise !

Respectfully,
RustyRudder
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#27110 - 03/03/11 09:30 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Rusty Rudder]
Renegade 9 Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 1082
Loc: SF Bay Area
Very nice rebuttal!
_________________________
smirk

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#27111 - 03/03/11 09:38 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Renegade 9]
wrecksum Offline
SVP Public Relations
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 2704
Loc: Dominican Republic
Good reply.
Let's hope that's an end to it now.


Edited by wrecksum (03/03/11 09:38 PM)
_________________________
A person without a sense of humour is like a wagon without springs.It's jolted by every pebble in the road.

Cessna 172, C172, C-172, Cessna Skyhawk fan.
www.cessna172club.com

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#27213 - 03/04/11 05:50 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: wrecksum]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8418
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Met with the FAAST rep. Personally he says he doesn't like the streight in approaches as his students dont know how to handle them. I mentioned that just yesterday, while both FAAST guy and I were in the air, two people at two diff. A-ports were doing them, so, I suggested to him he make his students aware and comfortable with them, because they are a fact of life and legal with respect to FAR's after clearing the area. Otherwise, I obtained an hour plus endorsement in the log book for ground school at a cost of $0, notta, zippo. Nice guy, good deal ! Counts as "time served"
He says he just doent like them and the FAA made them for instrument approaches and larger aircraft, not for 172's, and they cant keep changing the rule for IFR and VFR... I didn't quite understand that statement.
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#27216 - 03/04/11 06:11 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Rusty Rudder]
vpstone Offline
Club Sponsor
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 08/10/10
Posts: 552
Loc: Havre-De-Grace,Md,USA
RR, you Sir are more of a Gentleman then I am. I've mellowed out alot in my old age but still if a guy would of did that to me ..well all bets would of been off. maybe I still have a lot to learn. smile
_________________________
I want to die in my sleep just like my Grandfather did, Not shrieking and screaming like his passengers.

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#27221 - 03/04/11 06:44 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: vpstone]
November X-ray Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 2303
Loc: Brookshire, Texas, USA
What happened to pilot "B"? Was he offered further training???
_________________________
N. X.




www.cessna172club.com

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#27223 - 03/04/11 06:58 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: November X-ray]
Showboatsix Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 12/04/10
Posts: 1827
Loc: KUAO, Aurora, Oregon
As I was reading this I was thinking to myself........"I wonder of this "experimental plane" was an RV.... well low and behold!!!!

Quote:
Like all other incidents a chain of events ensued that placed my life in danger as well as Alan McKeen's, the pilot of the experimental RV-6.


I was right, and we have the factory up here at KUAO, and I have never met a bunch of more arrogant pilots than those who to fly RV's.

You were lucky, see and be seen, we have this all the time.



Edited by Showboatsix (03/04/11 07:02 PM)
_________________________

Note: "Speed and 172 are not used in the same sentence!"


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#27256 - 03/04/11 09:05 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Showboatsix]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8418
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Originally Posted By: Showboatsix
As I was reading this I was thinking to myself........"I wonder of this "experimental plane" was an RV.... well low and behold!!!!

Quote:
Like all other incidents a chain of events ensued that placed my life in danger as well as Alan McKeen's, the pilot of the experimental RV-6.


I was right, and we have the factory up here at KUAO, and I have never met a bunch of more arrogant pilots than those who to fly RV's.

You were lucky, see and be seen, we have this all the time.


How funny you mention that, I became a member of one of their clubs(RV) a long while ago and formed the same opinion of them and this guy as well !
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#27258 - 03/04/11 09:08 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: vpstone]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8418
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Originally Posted By: vpstone
RR, you Sir are more of a Gentleman then I am. I've mellowed out alot in my old age but still if a guy would of did that to me ..well all bets would of been off. maybe I still have a lot to learn. smile



Haaahaa, why thank you, I normally make a knee jerk decision that ends up biting me in the a$$, had 24 hours to cool off, that was the only thing that saved me !
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#27261 - 03/04/11 09:18 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: November X-ray]
Rusty Rudder Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 8418
Loc: Fair Haven New York
Originally Posted By: November X-ray
What happened to pilot "B"? Was he offered further training???


Pilot "B" would have been better off settling this like a gentleman in the hangar on Tuesday afternoon as opposed to grandstanding it with anyone who would listen. He has begun a "Pi$$in contest" I am in for the long haul on. I am relatively sure he will get his training and then some ! In fact, I know he will be getting his re-training, from what the FAAST guy said today, and pretty sure he will be contacted by the FSDO of our area, in fact, positive! I could be wrong, but, if I was him I would have filed the NASA as well as I did ! Takes two to tango.
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


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#29651 - 03/22/11 06:07 AM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Rusty Rudder]
Maxair Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 13
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Rusty Rudder
I probably should have overflown the field to verify, had I known the radio wasnt working I wouldn't have done a streight in approach and would have checked the field for traffic. Typically we dont have alot of traffic and it's not uncommon to have no one around most of the time, fuel prices have pushed most out of the sky... Overflying the field @ 500 + TPA is a good habit !


Exactly. S-Approaches at uncontrolled fields are dangerous, radios or not. Did you file a NASA report? Sounds like the makings of a potential certificate action.
_________________________


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#29653 - 03/22/11 06:14 AM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Maxair]
Maxair Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 13
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Maxair
Originally Posted By: Rusty Rudder
I probably should have overflown the field to verify, had I known the radio wasnt working I wouldn't have done a streight in approach and would have checked the field for traffic. Typically we dont have alot of traffic and it's not uncommon to have no one around most of the time, fuel prices have pushed most out of the sky... Overflying the field @ 500 + TPA is a good habit !


Exactly. S-Approaches at uncontrolled fields are dangerous, radios or not. Did you file a NASA report? Sounds like the makings of a potential certificate action.


OK, I see you submitted a NASA report. Good move. Next time overfly the field and enter the pattern like you should have done.
_________________________


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#29654 - 03/22/11 06:26 AM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Rusty Rudder]
XP Driver Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 2407
Loc: Fairfax, Virginia
Originally Posted By: Rusty Rudder
County heard all of B's transmissions and A's transmissions, A didnt have the ability to hear B, but B heard all of A's and even talked to unicom, so they could hear and talk to each other, A hears nothing except ATIs and no wind...


Sounds like you are lucky to be alive RR, I am glad of that! One thing I don't understant - how is it you could pick up the ATIS but not the other plane's transmissions?
_________________________


Once you go XP you never go back!

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#29664 - 03/22/11 09:21 AM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: XP Driver]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
Just input. The USAF radio out procedure was overfly field 1000' above pattern wag wings, flashing landing light then enter normal pattern. Side bar. At our field there is frequent parachute jumps to the runway center point. Flying over the field is not recommend if you don't have radio. You might have someone 'drop in' on you unexpectedly. My 'normal' procedure during these jumps is to depart the pattern to the west, do clearing circles until I have visual on all jumpers or hear they are on the ground before entering pattern. Without radio you would not know they were in the air. So your own airport/situation may dictate what the Pilot IN Command may chose to do.

Not all situations are identical. I have flown straight in's, downwind entry, base and opposite base entry depending on the situation.

Control fields are just what the name implies and VFR means "see and avoid". Granted there are pattern entry procedures, but as in the USAF dash 1 manual states on opening page. "This manual is indended as a guide and does not cover every situation. Pilot judgment may supersed this manual"


This is why the responsibility is to the PIC.
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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#29702 - 03/22/11 03:51 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: vettdvr]
Peedie Montgomery Offline
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 3466
Loc: Hickory, NC
Rusty good job, you did all the right things, wrecksum I'm with you would had either given or probaley gotten an ass whipping. But this has happened way to many times at non towered fields. It is a problem at most airports to some degree. I think the most in portant thing is safety and try to be nice to each other (yes give way do a go around) thats the thing to do. Lets all try to fly safe and have fun.
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Ya'll Fly Safe and Often

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#29728 - 03/22/11 09:04 PM Re: Who is at fault, you be the judge ! [Re: Peedie Montgomery]
KYhawkXP Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 128
Loc: Ky
I always try to fly into non towered airports assuming there are planes out there with no radios. Radios are not required by law. Radios break. Radios are easily screwed up by operator error, squelch, wrong com switch, volume turned down etc. We must try to see and avoid other traffic (part 91.113). If both airplanes saw each other on opposite finals the lower airplane has the right of way. Over the runway is no place to play chicken. I also use a Zaon traffic unit which is a big help for situations like this to let you know someone's out there.


Edited by KYhawkXP (03/22/11 09:19 PM)

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