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Topic Options
#33877 - 04/22/11 02:35 PM How much does your C172 cost you per hour?
Beeza Offline
Club Sponsor
Pilot in Command

Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 370
Loc: Cabarete, Dominican Republic
As word gets around that Wrecksum and I have our plane here in the Dominican Republic, we are getting more and more enquiries from folks who want to go for a ride.

In fact our little jaunt over to Grand Turk was to help out a friend who needed to leave the DR for immigration reasons. He contributed towards the cost of the trip, but by no means paid for it entirely.

We have to be very careful here as we are not registered as a licensed air taxi (Part 135) and I am only PPL. Although Wrecksum is a CPL. It's a great opportunity for me to get someone else to help contribute towards my hour building, pro-rata of course.

One route in particular is Puerto Plata to Punta Cana. Since the local domestic airline pulled that route, our enquiries are increasing.

I am thinking that it costs $120 an hour to operate our plane. That includes fuel at $7 a gallon, engine amortization (Penn Yann 180hp), insurance, parking, landing fees, and our trust management.

Although for all one-way routes we have to ask for round-trip as we need to get back home to POP. So for a one hour and twenty minute flight we would have to ask for a $300 contribution. But for the same duration as a sightseeing tour landing back at POP we would only be $150. Do you think that's a fair price?

Top
#33881 - 04/22/11 03:12 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Beeza]
Glenn Darr Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 1708
Loc: Arizona
counting all of my expenses for the year: annual, hangar rent, getting improvements, and other stuff, my cost was $132.50 per hour of flying time. That was for 109.5 hours in 2010.
_________________________
Glenn
1969 172K
KAVQ

Top
#33888 - 04/22/11 03:38 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Glenn Darr]
Beeza Offline
Club Sponsor
Pilot in Command

Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 370
Loc: Cabarete, Dominican Republic
I guess I haven't factored in the maintenance labour costs as I do that myself. So I suppose I could include that in the hourly rate.

Top
#33889 - 04/22/11 03:41 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Beeza]
Hawker172E Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 488
Loc: NE PA
I stopped calculating after putting in a new engine in my old 172M. That's not a complaint - I love owning my own airplane - I just try not to look! smile
_________________________
Hawker


Flying an airplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? ~ Captain Picard

Top
#33893 - 04/22/11 04:46 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Hawker172E]
California Flyer Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 5838
Loc: Groveland, California
I found this website when I was trying to determine the cost per hour of my plane. Using these figures as a starting point, I was able to add and subtract the numbers to get a number that's closer to my own costs. For example, insurance was lower but hangar costs are higher for me.

Here is the link to the cost per hour for a Cessna 172SP:
Cost Per Hour -C172SP

Here's the link to the main page where you can select from several types of planes. They've got 172s broken out into a few options (early models, XPs, SPs, etc).
Operating Cost main page

I'm going to see how well this tracks to actual costs for the first couple of years, then likely give up because "it is what it is"...
_________________________
Co-Conspirator, Cessna 172 Club and Forum
http://www.cessna172club.com


Owner of N291ME, a 2000 Cessna 172SP

Top
#33895 - 04/22/11 06:26 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: California Flyer]
Rusty Rudder Online   content
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 7325
Loc: Fair Haven New York
2010, $85 per hour 105 hours
_________________________
Take-off's are optional, landings are manditory


Top
#33896 - 04/22/11 06:39 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Rusty Rudder]
kaustin Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 34
Loc: Tupelo, MS
I decided to wait on the purchase till later and rent. When I was looking to buy the average I found was $90 -$110 but that was using $3.50 for fuel (they were older numbers averaged).

I was very pleasantly surprised to see what my local FBO rents a c172. Starts at $110 per hour. If you buy in blocks of 5 hrs it goes down to $92 per hour. Knowing that I would need a lot of training hours I ask the manager about a larger block. I was able to pre buy 25 hours at $82 per. The way fuel is going up I count this as a no brainer.

Going on what I found in my research I figure the $132 price would be pretty close with todays fuel prices.

Top
#33899 - 04/22/11 06:53 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: kaustin]
Cotsboe Offline
Club Sponsor
Pilot in Command

Registered: 03/31/10
Posts: 309
Loc: Slidell LA
depends on how much you fly and spread the fixed costs of course, mine costs 78.00 per hr. if I fly 15hrs./mo.
_________________________
A&P,IA
N105LH 172K


Top
#33967 - 04/23/11 11:45 AM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Cotsboe]
Jim Williams Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 158
Loc: Utah, USA
Beeza - What is the total cost to hang your C-172 in the air for an hour (fuel, annual, maintenance, hangar rent, engine amortization, insurance, parking, landing fees, trust management, BFR, medical, etc.) - i.e. - total aircraft cost divided by total number of flying hours - and what you can ask your passangers to pay, are two different things. I suggest that you look at FAR Part 61.113. (2. You may equally share the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or airplane rental fees.) In other words, PPL can ask passangers to share the cost of only the expendables things for a flight. i.e. - With gas prices at $5.00/gal and a fuel burn of 10 gal/hr, I ask $25/hr for one passenger. Or, $12.50 per passenger if I carry three. ($50/4 = $12.50)

I usually ask for money if the passengers request the flight, such as deer hunters looking for game. However, since fuel is only a small part of the overall cost of flying, most of the time I don't mention cost to my passengers. However, if they offer to pay for the meal, I will gladly accept. - Jim

Top
#34001 - 04/23/11 03:49 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Jim Williams]
kaustin Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 34
Loc: Tupelo, MS
You guys are far more knowledgable than I am on this matter. I have been studying a lot lately and I remember reading something that I cannot put my hands on right now. It was something about not using passengers "split" payment to build time. Sorry so vague but I have read a lot of stuff.

It was basically saying that you could not charge passengers anything if you were going because they asked you to take them. You had to be planning on taking the trip whether they went or not. Again, sorry I can't put my finger on it right now. But that was how I understood it.

Top
#34083 - 04/24/11 11:47 AM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: kaustin]
EdW Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 11/21/10
Posts: 1502
Loc: Just east of Graceland
Originally Posted By: kaustin
You guys are far more knowledgable than I am on this matter. I have been studying a lot lately and I remember reading something that I cannot put my hands on right now. It was something about not using passengers "split" payment to build time. Sorry so vague but I have read a lot of stuff.

It was basically saying that you could not charge passengers anything if you were going because they asked you to take them. You had to be planning on taking the trip whether they went or not. Again, sorry I can't put my finger on it right now. But that was how I understood it.
I've read the same thing, and can't remember where. There are exceptions to this, though. I'll look it up. One exception is using personal aircraft for Civil Air Patrol SAR you can be reimbursed for fuel/oil.
_________________________
OK, I got my drone license...when does the season open, and what's the bag limit?

Top
#34230 - 04/25/11 06:49 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: EdW]
Showboatsix Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 12/04/10
Posts: 1656
Loc: KUAO, Aurora, Oregon
Divide this by the number of hours you fly a year...... the best answer is "I DON'T WANT TO KNOW!!!"

A quote I posted a while back!



There is only one reason to own an airplane, "I want one, I happen to be able to afford one, so therefor I have one", other than those reasons don't try to justify it as "I am saving money over renting", the costs of ownership can not be factored into the reason for having one, if that were true, my costs would be this.....

1. Hangar payment, $19,200.00 year
2. Hangar insurance, $700.00 year
3. Condo payment (Hangar Association) $1200.00 year
4. Airport access fee, $192.00 year
5. Airplane Insurance, $ 1200.00 year
6. Annual $1500.00 - 3000.00 year
7. Reserves, $30.00 per hour x 100 hrs a year $3000.00
8. Fuel 100 hrs x 8 gals hr x $5.35 $4280.00
9. Special assessment for taxi way repaving (Condo fees one time)$2500.00
10. Special assessment for easement land to access runway, one time (Condo fees one time) $1200.00

Total cost this year to own: $35,472.00

RENTING:
Positives:
Renting may be easier on the pocket book than owning.
Negatives: Only can get an airplane when one is available, and then maybe only for an hour or two.

OWNING:
Positives:
Can go when I want, come back when I want.
Negatives:
See list above.
Positives: Who cares about the list, See quote above:

"I want one, I happen to be able to afford one, so therefor I have one", other than those reasons don't try to justify it as "I am saving money over renting by owning",

PS: I for got to add State and local taxes to all of that!....... DAMN!
PPS: Do hamburgers still only cost $100.00?
_________________________

Note: "Speed and 172 are not used in the same sentence!"


Top
#34231 - 04/25/11 07:05 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Showboatsix]
Hawker172E Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 488
Loc: NE PA
I'm with you showboat. I'd rather just deal with the expense and not break it down. But if I did, I would have figure out some sort of an hourly credit for: FUN!

But I have to ask, $19,200 a year for a hangar? Do you have a hangar house or something?
_________________________
Hawker


Flying an airplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? ~ Captain Picard

Top
#34232 - 04/25/11 07:13 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Hawker172E]
Showboatsix Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 12/04/10
Posts: 1656
Loc: KUAO, Aurora, Oregon
Originally Posted By: Hawker172E
I'm with you showboat. I'd rather just deal with the expense and not break it down. But if I did, I would have figure out some sort of an hourly credit for: FUN!

But I have to ask, $19,200 a year for a hangar? Do you have a hangar house or something?



We are buying our own. Had it built a few years back. I did all the art work.

_________________________

Note: "Speed and 172 are not used in the same sentence!"


Top
#34235 - 04/25/11 07:21 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Showboatsix]
Hawker172E Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 488
Loc: NE PA
Very - very nice!!!!

Hmmm. I see a tricycle gear in that pic but a tail-dragger with the same paint scheme in your avatar(?) What else you got?? smile
_________________________
Hawker


Flying an airplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? ~ Captain Picard

Top
#34240 - 04/25/11 07:55 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Hawker172E]
Showboatsix Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 12/04/10
Posts: 1656
Loc: KUAO, Aurora, Oregon








And last but not least.............NO GOPHERS IN MY LAWNS!



Edited by Showboatsix (04/25/11 07:57 PM)
_________________________

Note: "Speed and 172 are not used in the same sentence!"


Top
#34242 - 04/25/11 08:01 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Showboatsix]
Hawker172E Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 488
Loc: NE PA
Can I come over and play? smile
_________________________
Hawker


Flying an airplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? ~ Captain Picard

Top
#34245 - 04/25/11 08:14 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Hawker172E]
Showboatsix Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 12/04/10
Posts: 1656
Loc: KUAO, Aurora, Oregon
AUGUST 20TH Annual End of Summer Hangar Party
About 12:00 to 5:00 if you are in town come on by.

Hangar #26



Edited by Showboatsix (04/25/11 08:23 PM)
_________________________

Note: "Speed and 172 are not used in the same sentence!"


Top
#323954 - 01/29/17 02:04 AM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Showboatsix]
Michael Carr Offline
New Member

Registered: 08/22/16
Posts: 1
Loc: TN
Bump from 5 years ago, oops

Here's my spreadsheet of operational costs.
Cost goes up the less I fly!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0unb9inr9m7vb0c/172A%20Operational%20Costs.xlsx?dl=0

Top
#324001 - 01/29/17 07:29 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Michael Carr]
BettyWhite Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 272
Loc: Washington
If I start trying to figure out how much it cost me per hour to fly my plane, it is time for me to give it up. Yea, I get it. But to me it's like asking what does it cost per hour to live? You know what? I really don't want to know what it cost me per hour to fly my plane. I am not a wealthy guy. I am a retired truck driver who loves all things aviation. It's not my fault. I was born this way. It is my dream come true to own and fly my very own airplane. What is it worth per hour to live your dreams? I don't care. My dreams are what matter. I raised two children who I would have given up my life to keep them safe. I wonder what it cost per hour to raise those kids? I could care less. To me flying isn't a hobby or a sport. It's me. It's what I love to do. What is fulfilling your love worth per hour? I don't know. Matters not to me. Actually, if I were to break it down into a spread sheet and figure out what it really cost me per hour to fly my plane I would have to include things like the drive out to the airport on a crisp clear spring morning with a smile on my face (you know, the ones where the wind sock is hanging there like a limp towel), and also include all those countless moments where I lay in bed just letting my thoughts relive past flying adventures and dreaming of my next fly camping trip, floating down into that grass strip by the river to set up camp with a few fellow aviators. I would also have to include the camaraderie with fellow pilots that include numerous hangar flying episodes while waiting for the weather to improve or maybe telling tall yarns around the campfire before retiring to sleep under the wing of my dream machine. Yea, there are a lot of those kind of things I would have to include in my cost per/hr spread sheet. If you look at it that way (and I do) the cost per/hr might seem a bit more palatable. To be honest, I fully understand when those questions about cost per/hr come up, but I still don't like it. to me it's like, what has that got to do with it? Why are you trying to darken my dreams? What does it cost per hour ......to live? Don't get me wrong. I am not going to become homeless and go hungry just so I can maintain this world of aviation. However, as long as I can have a roof over my head, put food on the table (you know, the basics) I will never put a per/hour price tag on the joy of owning and operating one of these marvelous adventure machines that allows one to escape into a three dimensional world where few are allowed the privilege to tread. Just what is the value of that feeling of freedom as you ease the yoke back and feel the separation from terra firma, no longer bound by just two dimensions, but now at the whims of the ever changing rivers of air and cloud, and subject to a whole other set of laws and physics where only the birds are the true masters at home in their element, and we are simply visiting guests. The price per hour for that visit? I don't know. I really don't care.

Top
#324002 - 01/29/17 08:03 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: BettyWhite]
N5479R Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 04/13/14
Posts: 1503
Loc: Florida
Well said!

Top
#324092 - 01/29/17 08:49 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: N5479R]
cyendrey Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 12/01/13
Posts: 373
Loc: La Vernia, Texas
Don't take this personally but the cost per hour is one of the most abused and misrepresented 'facts' about aircraft ownership there is. Most people , including the AOPA, conflate fixed costs which have no hourly basis with costs that are generated by flying hours. It is one of the stupidest things you can do and is a bleed over from business accounting practices that are established for IRS reporting, but have little to do with how aircraft are operated. In other words those rules are established to maximize/over represent the apparent expense of operation to generate the highest possible tax deduction.

The true hourly costs are simple and straight forward: fuel, oil, engine and airframe maintenance reserve. That's it. Period.

The rest are fixed costs that you will pay if the aircraft never flies an hour and remain unchanged regardless of the hours flown - hangar, loan payment (if any), insurance, and annual inspection(not repair/mitigation -just the inspection). Those should never be equated to hourly costs for the simple reason they have no hourly basis -they are fixed, calendar based costs just like your car and home insurance.

To attempt to include /equate them to an hourly cost for personal flying will make hourly costs look so high that only an idiot would own an airplane if those costs were truly hour based. You wouldn't own a car or let it out of the garage if you applied that practice to your auto.

I charge myself $40/hr to cover my maintenance reserve and annual plus a little pad. The rest is just the cost of flying (fuel, insurance, hangar). If I can't manage those in my monthly budget (which is how you manage all other personal expenses), then I've got the wrong airplane or should consider another option rather than ownership until my finances are in order.


Edited by cyendrey (01/29/17 09:00 PM)
_________________________
Clayton,
" CFI to Student: You were only supposed to simulate securing the engine for emergency landing... (As silence fills the cabin...)"

Top
#324093 - 01/29/17 09:13 PM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: cyendrey]
Newpilotoldplane Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 567
Loc: Michigan
Honestly as a new pilot a many years back , I definitely did a spread sheet on the average cost of owning .

I didn't want to feel like I was going to be financially strapped by owning.

That's the common sense thing to do , evryone has a ball park figure of cost some just don't care what it cost because they can afford it thankfully I'm on that's side of the fence right now but could always use a bigger fast plane ,, lol
_________________________
F=MA

Top
#324142 - 01/30/17 10:50 AM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: BettyWhite]
Pilot5107F Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 01/16/16
Posts: 1120
Loc: East Texas
Originally Posted By: BettyWhite
If I start trying to figure out how much it cost me per hour to fly my plane, it is time for me to give it up. Yea, I get it. But to me it's like asking what does it cost per hour to live? You know what? I really don't want to know what it cost me per hour to fly my plane. I am not a wealthy guy. I am a retired truck driver who loves all things aviation. It's not my fault. I was born this way. It is my dream come true to own and fly my very own airplane. What is it worth per hour to live your dreams? I don't care. My dreams are what matter. I raised two children who I would have given up my life to keep them safe. I wonder what it cost per hour to raise those kids? I could care less. To me flying isn't a hobby or a sport. It's me. It's what I love to do. What is fulfilling your love worth per hour? I don't know. Matters not to me. Actually, if I were to break it down into a spread sheet and figure out what it really cost me per hour to fly my plane I would have to include things like the drive out to the airport on a crisp clear spring morning with a smile on my face (you know, the ones where the wind sock is hanging there like a limp towel), and also include all those countless moments where I lay in bed just letting my thoughts relive past flying adventures and dreaming of my next fly camping trip, floating down into that grass strip by the river to set up camp with a few fellow aviators. I would also have to include the camaraderie with fellow pilots that include numerous hangar flying episodes while waiting for the weather to improve or maybe telling tall yarns around the campfire before retiring to sleep under the wing of my dream machine. Yea, there are a lot of those kind of things I would have to include in my cost per/hr spread sheet. If you look at it that way (and I do) the cost per/hr might seem a bit more palatable. To be honest, I fully understand when those questions about cost per/hr come up, but I still don't like it. to me it's like, what has that got to do with it? Why are you trying to darken my dreams? What does it cost per hour ......to live? Don't get me wrong. I am not going to become homeless and go hungry just so I can maintain this world of aviation. However, as long as I can have a roof over my head, put food on the table (you know, the basics) I will never put a per/hour price tag on the joy of owning and operating one of these marvelous adventure machines that allows one to escape into a three dimensional world where few are allowed the privilege to tread. Just what is the value of that feeling of freedom as you ease the yoke back and feel the separation from terra firma, no longer bound by just two dimensions, but now at the whims of the ever changing rivers of air and cloud, and subject to a whole other set of laws and physics where only the birds are the true masters at home in their element, and we are simply visiting guests. The price per hour for that visit? I don't know. I really don't care.


I agree 100%. I have worked hard and flown hard for others all of my life and now it's time to either rent or own. Hmmm? Simple. After seeing what others call maintenance I prefer to fly my own airplane and know exactly what maintenance it gets.

Does it cost more? Definitely but to me it's worth it. My expenses are pretty much set to where it doesn't hurt if I don't fly it for an entire year. In the next few months my fixed expenses will go down drastically:

Drive to the airport $0 (my airport is ready to go and I live on it here at TA37 )

Hangar $0 (once I finish building it)

Annual Inspection $0 for labor. My IA lives down the road I'm giving her hangar space for her shop and plane in exchange for her doing my maintenance.

Insurance $450 a year

So then all I have to worry about is how much fuel and oil costs and that would be my expenses, so basically I won't even think about it. Having said that I love to keep great records so I'll be looking for a good expense spreadsheet just to keep the numbers in case I ever want to sell it I can give it to a buyer when they ask how much it costs to fly.
_________________________
Current:
172H-180hp, 800&600 tires, Hoerner Wingtips (Soon: Powerflow & maybe VG kit)
TA37 Vaca-Moo airport

Previous:
Seneca, Cherokee6, Grumman Tiger AG5B, Citabria 7ECA, Pilatus P3, Quicksilver (E-AB), Hiller 12C, R22 Mariner, PR53 Sabanera Heliport

Top
#324143 - 01/30/17 11:03 AM Re: How much does your C172 cost you per hour? [Re: Beeza]
Pilot5107F Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 01/16/16
Posts: 1120
Loc: East Texas
Originally Posted By: Beeza
As word gets around that Wrecksum and I have our plane here in the Dominican Republic, we are getting more and more enquiries from folks who want to go for a ride.

In fact our little jaunt over to Grand Turk was to help out a friend who needed to leave the DR for immigration reasons. He contributed towards the cost of the trip, but by no means paid for it entirely.

We have to be very careful here as we are not registered as a licensed air taxi (Part 135) and I am only PPL. Although Wrecksum is a CPL. It's a great opportunity for me to get someone else to help contribute towards my hour building, pro-rata of course.

One route in particular is Puerto Plata to Punta Cana. Since the local domestic airline pulled that route, our enquiries are increasing.

I am thinking that it costs $120 an hour to operate our plane. That includes fuel at $7 a gallon, engine amortization (Penn Yann 180hp), insurance, parking, landing fees, and our trust management.

Although for all one-way routes we have to ask for round-trip as we need to get back home to POP. So for a one hour and twenty minute flight we would have to ask for a $300 contribution. But for the same duration as a sightseeing tour landing back at POP we would only be $150. Do you think that's a fair price?


Having flown in DomRep many times while living in Puerto Rico, remember that it's not like here in the States that if you get caught flying a charter you get called into the FAA's office and after a possible fine you might get 30 days suspension on your Certificate. Of course the "New FAA" can get proof of illegal maintenance and if you have enough money they won't do anything to you, but that's a subject for another day.

As you most likely know DomRep's laws are very different than over here and there you're guilty until proven innocent so be careful what you do down there, seen a lot of pilots get jammed up very easily on the island.

I remember flying to La Romana a while back. When we were going to return to Puerto Rico the next day they were trying to charge me $275 for "disinfecting my airplane". That involved spraying the ground around my tires with a $10 bug sprayer from Home Depot when we got there. Of course I know Spanish so I ended up talking with one of the higher ups and after about 2 hours delayed we finally got that line item removed from our over night stay.
_________________________
Current:
172H-180hp, 800&600 tires, Hoerner Wingtips (Soon: Powerflow & maybe VG kit)
TA37 Vaca-Moo airport

Previous:
Seneca, Cherokee6, Grumman Tiger AG5B, Citabria 7ECA, Pilatus P3, Quicksilver (E-AB), Hiller 12C, R22 Mariner, PR53 Sabanera Heliport

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