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#415646 - 10/11/21 01:57 PM Takeoff Distance
SCArcherPilot Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 08/23/20
Posts: 112
Loc: Cartersville, Georgia
_________________________

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#415649 - 10/11/21 04:58 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: SCArcherPilot]
rkittine Online   content
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/11/21
Posts: 1022
Loc: New York
About xxxxx feet!
_________________________
Robert Kittine
CFI,CFII, MEI
Sag Harbor and Manhattan, New York
WA2YDV



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#415651 - 10/11/21 05:01 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: rkittine]
mx757 Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 639
Loc: st louis MO
depends. ? how much weight? full fuel or 1/4 fuel?
how many passengers? or just pilot?
grass strip or hard surface?
tematures? cool? or hot day? DA effects take off

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#415654 - 10/11/21 05:53 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: mx757]
rkittine Online   content
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/11/21
Posts: 1022
Loc: New York
And what plane / engine? Sorry SCA, they need to get this fixed so your posts have content.

Bob
_________________________
Robert Kittine
CFI,CFII, MEI
Sag Harbor and Manhattan, New York
WA2YDV



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#415656 - 10/11/21 07:43 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: rkittine]
SCArcherPilot Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 08/23/20
Posts: 112
Loc: Cartersville, Georgia
yes, i typed about 2 paragraphs worth of data/comments about my take off distance being around 1100ft and not matching what the POH was saying it should be. Trying to figure out why naturally.
Afraid to type anymore, frustrating to say the least to lose a post


Edited by SCArcherPilot (10/11/21 07:44 PM)
_________________________

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#415657 - 10/11/21 07:47 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: SCArcherPilot]
SCArcherPilot Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 08/23/20
Posts: 112
Loc: Cartersville, Georgia
_________________________

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#415658 - 10/11/21 07:48 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: SCArcherPilot]
SCArcherPilot Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 08/23/20
Posts: 112
Loc: Cartersville, Georgia
nevermind...tried again with info, but doesnt like more than a sentence or two.
_________________________

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#415662 - 10/11/21 09:58 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: SCArcherPilot]
rkittine Online   content
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/11/21
Posts: 1022
Loc: New York
Keep in mind that what is in the POH is based on extrapolated data from test flights of a brand new aircraft and engine, under ideal conditions. No added weight from junk in the baggage compartment, added weight to standard pilot weight etc. Plane washed and waxed etc.

Bob
_________________________
Robert Kittine
CFI,CFII, MEI
Sag Harbor and Manhattan, New York
WA2YDV



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#415671 - 10/12/21 10:29 AM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: rkittine]
SCArcherPilot Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 08/23/20
Posts: 112
Loc: Cartersville, Georgia
Thanks Bob, interested in flying into some grass strips which erodes T/O performance and was seeing if the numbers were correct on hard surface, but using up 1100ft on a hard runway might mean I burn up a lot more on grass obviously which gives me pause about trying 2500ft grass strips anywhere near summertime.
_________________________

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#415673 - 10/12/21 12:13 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: SCArcherPilot]
Challenger1 Online   sad
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 03/23/16
Posts: 3136
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
I go in and out of grass strips a lot this past couple years.

Last summer I landed 45 times on grass 2020.

Not quite that much this past summer since I did more XC trips this year.

This past summer I was in and out of a 1700' rough grass strip, robinson 8I1.
One day the DA was 2900' on a hot day along the river bottom with a 500' msl.

Me, my 60# dog and half full fuel tanks I am off the ground in about 1000-1200'? with 10 flaps with a 160hp 172 on tall grass. The plane does have a powerflow exhaust which does help torque.

I have been really practicing short field take offs and landings this year. I will have to pay more attention to how much runway I have been using at my home airport which is paved and only 2800' long.

With 10 flaps on grass I am off the ground at 40kts indicated and then fly in ground effects which I love to do.

1700' grass does not scare me anymore.

This is Leebottom 64I 4100' long. You could take off and land 3 times I bet in one roll! I go here a lot. This picture was from a month ago.









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#415678 - 10/12/21 01:07 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: Challenger1]
rkittine Online   content
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/11/21
Posts: 1022
Loc: New York
I enjoy grass fields and especially like them in my tail dragger. (Much safer in cross winds too). Depending on how wet, how the ground is packed and how the grass is mowed and how heavy you are and what your tire pressures are, you can expect considerable differences in performance.

Bob
_________________________
Robert Kittine
CFI,CFII, MEI
Sag Harbor and Manhattan, New York
WA2YDV



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#415686 - 10/12/21 02:56 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: rkittine]
Gooneybird Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 11/17/18
Posts: 435
Loc: Arizona
Grass field? What's that? In the Southwest we have dirt strips. When we take the airplane to Nebraska we seek out grass. This is Pleasant Valley Forest Service Airstrip 24AZ, 5,688 MSL, which also doubles as a road.

_________________________
1964 Cessna 172E


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#415713 - 10/13/21 11:08 AM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: Gooneybird]
SCArcherPilot Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 08/23/20
Posts: 112
Loc: Cartersville, Georgia
yeah, there are grass strips around atlanta & SC with restaurants that I want to visit but always a little nervous since I have never landed on a grass strip before...landing I am not so worried about since i practice short and soft field techniques...takeoff is always my concern since grass can be soft and obviously affect T/O performance...and those trees coming at me fast gives me pause. Dont want to be that guy on the video everyone is saying "look at that knucklehead hit the trees"
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#415717 - 10/13/21 12:38 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: SCArcherPilot]
Challenger1 Online   sad
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 03/23/16
Posts: 3136
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
You have been to a impressive array of states with your plane, I am surprised that you have not landed on grass by now.

It is really no big deal grass. Many people only fly off of grass.

When I was learning to fly I flew with the chief flight instructor during a stage check. He says "have they taken you up to red stewart yet" I said no. He shows it to me on a sectional and says go find it for me.

First I didn't notice it was grass and because of that I flew right over it looking for it. He showed it to me and I circled around to setup to land. I was nervous as hell sweating bullets. We did 2 landings and it was not that hard, just rough.

That helped me a ton that day. Non of my other instructors ever took me back to it.

Then after I have my PPL I was made aware of a river bottom grass strip by a friend who lives nearby it and have been to some fly ins there even though he is not a pilot.

First time I flew over it I was wow that is down in the bottoms, lots of trees around it. Chickened out that day.

Then months later with more hours under my belt with my wife next to me in the plane I was going to go for it. She was not for it at all and said not with me in the plane. So I chickened out that day also.

Then the next spring I was by myself and went for it, down in between the trees I went and damn that was easy. The strip was really long and pretty smooth.

It was like releasing the flood gates! Opened up a whole new world to me especially since there was not much traffic there and you have the whole place to yourself many days. Since then I have been there close to a 100 times and given many rides from there including my wife many times.

10 flaps, yoke all the way back and full power. The front wheel is off the ground pretty early and the plane flys when it is ready. Level out and enjoy the ground effects. Love flying close to the ground.

There is a new pilot at my airport who just bought an archer. He learned to fly at the same school I did and we crossed paths there. I was instrument training while he was working on his PPL. He has never landed on grass either during his training and is after my buddy who is a CFII to go with him to land at the river bottom airport. It is easy when the strip is 4100' long but it sure looks intimidating down among the trees. Good luck
I am the only plane there most times.



Nice place to take my dog and let him run around. He is such a home boy, stays near the plane so he don't get left behind! lol



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#415718 - 10/13/21 12:58 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: Gooneybird]
Challenger1 Online   sad
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 03/23/16
Posts: 3136
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Originally Posted By: Gooneybird
Grass field? What's that? In the Southwest we have dirt strips. When we take the airplane to Nebraska we seek out grass. This is Pleasant Valley Forest Service Airstrip 24AZ, 5,688 MSL, which also doubles as a road.



It is on my bucket list to fly out west one of these days soon.
That would be cool to land on a road out there.

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#415742 - 10/14/21 10:31 AM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: Challenger1]
SCArcherPilot Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 08/23/20
Posts: 112
Loc: Cartersville, Georgia
Originally Posted By: Challenger1
You have been to a impressive array of states with your plane, I am surprised that you have not landed on grass by now.

It is really no big deal grass. Many people only fly off of grass.

When I was learning to fly I flew with the chief flight instructor during a stage check. He says "have they taken you up to red stewart yet" I said no. He shows it to me on a sectional and says go find it for me.

First I didn't notice it was grass and because of that I flew right over it looking for it. He showed it to me and I circled around to setup to land. I was nervous as hell sweating bullets. We did 2 landings and it was not that hard, just rough.

That helped me a ton that day. Non of my other instructors ever took me back to it.

Then after I have my PPL I was made aware of a river bottom grass strip by a friend who lives nearby it and have been to some fly ins there even though he is not a pilot.

First time I flew over it I was wow that is down in the bottoms, lots of trees around it. Chickened out that day.

Then months later with more hours under my belt with my wife next to me in the plane I was going to go for it. She was not for it at all and said not with me in the plane. So I chickened out that day also.

Then the next spring I was by myself and went for it, down in between the trees I went and damn that was easy. The strip was really long and pretty smooth.

It was like releasing the flood gates! Opened up a whole new world to me especially since there was not much traffic there and you have the whole place to yourself many days. Since then I have been there close to a 100 times and given many rides from there including my wife many times.

10 flaps, yoke all the way back and full power. The front wheel is off the ground pretty early and the plane flys when it is ready. Level out and enjoy the ground effects. Love flying close to the ground.

There is a new pilot at my airport who just bought an archer. He learned to fly at the same school I did and we crossed paths there. I was instrument training while he was working on his PPL. He has never landed on grass either during his training and is after my buddy who is a CFII to go with him to land at the river bottom airport. It is easy when the strip is 4100' long but it sure looks intimidating down among the trees. Good luck
I am the only plane there most times.



Nice place to take my dog and let him run around. He is such a home boy, stays near the plane so he don't get left behind! lol




Yeah, that is why I have been paying much closer attention to my T/O distance with this plane, planning for a grass strip adventure. I have mainly rented planes since 1998 and they always specified no grass strips, so I never felt like I could. Now that I own my own airplane, the chains are off. Just want to make sure i can get over the trees at the end of course LOL.
_________________________

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#415747 - 10/14/21 12:40 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: SCArcherPilot]
rkittine Online   content
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/11/21
Posts: 1022
Loc: New York
I bet you will love it. Most of the grass runways I use are not only smooth and well maintained, but a lot wider than paved runways.

Bob
_________________________
Robert Kittine
CFI,CFII, MEI
Sag Harbor and Manhattan, New York
WA2YDV



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#415748 - 10/14/21 01:45 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: rkittine]
Joeman434 Online   content
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/20/14
Posts: 7707
Loc: Ocala, Florida
I live on grass.....5,000 X 150.


Edited by Joeman434 (10/14/21 01:46 PM)
_________________________
Do it right the first time.

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#415749 - 10/14/21 01:45 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: SCArcherPilot]
Challenger1 Online   sad
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 03/23/16
Posts: 3136
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Good point of the 4 grass strips that I frequent, they are pretty wide.
64india is crazy wide.

My suggestion is to over fly the field first to check for wild life especially if there are no fences. Plus it is fun making a full speed low low pass first.

I have encouraged 6 people from my airport to come down and land at my favorite grass strip. Couple of them are current and retired airline pilots in there own planes. They have been on grass long before I came along but never to leebottom.
3 others were renting 172 from my airport and it was their first time landing on grass. I guess I pressured them to come down to land there? lol

The FBO knows they are landing the rentals down there and don't care. The FBO knows they are going down there because of me. One time the guy was late bringing the plane back and blamed it on me in a fun way. Through me under the bus!! lol

When I rented planes from where I learned to fly we were allowed to take the planes anywhere we wanted.

There are no lights at most grass strips so I don't go there after dark, but I have taken off after dark but it is pretty dangerous because of deer.

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/b260/challenger19711/IMG_0883.MOV[/img]



Also at this airport in the river bottom it get's foggy at night, adds to the fun!

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#415750 - 10/14/21 01:49 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: Challenger1]
Joeman434 Online   content
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 02/20/14
Posts: 7707
Loc: Ocala, Florida
Originally Posted By: Challenger1


There are no lights at most grass strips so I don't go there after dark, but I have taken off after dark but it is pretty dangerous because of deer.




We have solar side marker lights....they do the job.
_________________________
Do it right the first time.

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#415754 - 10/14/21 03:45 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: Joeman434]
Challenger1 Online   sad
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 03/23/16
Posts: 3136
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Originally Posted By: Joeman434
Originally Posted By: Challenger1


There are no lights at most grass strips so I don't go there after dark, but I have taken off after dark but it is pretty dangerous because of deer.




We have solar side marker lights....they do the job.


I suggested tiki torches for when we are down there camping! lol
Or my wife with a flashlite, she didn't think highly of that idea.

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#415756 - 10/14/21 05:15 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: Challenger1]
Gooneybird Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 11/17/18
Posts: 435
Loc: Arizona
I've done glassy water landings into a full moon reflection at night.
_________________________
1964 Cessna 172E


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#415759 - 10/14/21 07:05 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: Gooneybird]
Challenger1 Online   sad
Platinum Pilot

Registered: 03/23/16
Posts: 3136
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Originally Posted By: Gooneybird
I've done glassy water landings into a full moon reflection at night.


That would be awesome!! Sea plane rating is on my radar!!
There was a full moon this night and I was tempted to fly but the fog was moving in.



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#415774 - 10/15/21 12:35 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: Challenger1]
rkittine Online   content
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/11/21
Posts: 1022
Loc: New York
Upstate for night seaplane flying we have had boats line the water runway with nav light on. For glassy water night landings, I would think that identifying the LVR would be the most problematic. If you have a big enough body of water, it could be fun.

Bob
_________________________
Robert Kittine
CFI,CFII, MEI
Sag Harbor and Manhattan, New York
WA2YDV



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#415778 - 10/15/21 02:50 PM Re: Takeoff Distance [Re: rkittine]
Dave W Offline
Bronze Pilot

Registered: 03/23/14
Posts: 565
Loc: Northern Virginia
You didn't say what technique are you using on the pavement? If you are doing a "Soft Field Takeoff" with the nose really high then the take-off run will be longer even though you lift off at a slower speed. The STOL guys on grass don't do "Soft Field" takeoffs.

If you are doing a normal short field takeoff and not meeting the book numbers then either your engine is tired, or you have a cruise prop, or your airspeed is slightly off causing a late rotation.

Although you should test it early in the morning as hot pavement will hurt performance.

Dave



Edited by Dave W (10/15/21 03:00 PM)

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