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#4258 - 03/18/10 11:09 PM Windshied replacement
Tom T Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 33
Loc: Wa.
I will be replacing my windshield on my 172K and am wondering if anybody has ever done so without drilling out all those rivots. I am not looking forward to all that drilling and replacing the rivots with nuts and bolts.
Advice appreciated,

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#4283 - 03/19/10 06:38 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Tom T]
agghopp Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 348
Loc: Buckeye State
Can't say as I have Tom, but I did my side glass last year at annual. It is a lot of work for the uninitiated...heck it was a lot for my mechanic, helpers, everyone involved.

Taking pictures and documenting the process for the rest of us would be fantastic for future reference. Good luck.
_________________________
'66-G model, O-300 145 HP Conti, "Smooth Sixie"

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#4286 - 03/19/10 08:58 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Tom T]
TaylorSp Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 313
Loc: Salina, KS
We recently replaced our windshield and ours had the nuts and bolts holding the previous window on. The mechanic didn't like this to much, because he said that he would probably have to get someone to catch all of the nuts (he normally only works by himself). He ended up using rivets when he installed the new window. We originally thought that it would take him less time because of the nuts and bolts, but he estimated that it would take him an hour longer with them.
_________________________
1974 Cessna 172M
N13540
CFII/ Comm. Multi.

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#4316 - 03/21/10 01:01 AM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: TaylorSp]
Tom T Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 33
Loc: Wa.
Did he use a cherrymax rivot when it went together, or the nuts and screws?
I have been reading up on changing them without taking off the bottom molding at all. Just get it hot and push it out from the inside. Get the new one warmed up real good and use a 2 inch diameter wood dowl to push the top down and it SUPPOSEDLY will snap in??

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#6480 - 04/23/10 11:03 AM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Tom T]
Glenn Darr Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 1540
Loc: Arizona
When I had the windshield replaced last year, the techs just used nuts and bolts. Since the windshield had been replaced before, there was already nuts and bolts used. Still cost plenty for installation.
Glenn
1969 172K
W45
_________________________
Glenn
1969 172K
KAVQ

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#6566 - 04/24/10 08:28 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: TaylorSp]
CESSNADON Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 16
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: TaylorSp
We recently replaced our windshield and ours had the nuts and bolts holding the previous window on. The mechanic didn't like this to much, because he said that he would probably have to get someone to catch all of the nuts (he normally only works by himself). He ended up using rivets when he installed the new window. We originally thought that it would take him less time because of the nuts and bolts, but he estimated that it would take him an hour longer with them.


You need someone to catch the rivets when they are drilled and punched out as well as nuts.

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#6567 - 04/24/10 08:31 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Tom T]
CESSNADON Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 16
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Tom T
Did he use a cherrymax rivot when it went together, or the nuts and screws?
I have been reading up on changing them without taking off the bottom molding at all. Just get it hot and push it out from the inside. Get the new one warmed up real good and use a 2 inch diameter wood dowl to push the top down and it SUPPOSEDLY will snap in??


Can't speak to the 172, but I have had experience with a 150. Even with the bottom molding removed it is a difficult job.By trying to install the windshield without removing the bottom moulding you are risking cracking the brand new windshield

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#6572 - 04/24/10 09:12 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: CESSNADON]
TaylorSp Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 313
Loc: Salina, KS
I agree. I wouldn't take the risk.
_________________________
1974 Cessna 172M
N13540
CFII/ Comm. Multi.

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#7486 - 05/09/10 04:02 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: TaylorSp]
Tom T Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 33
Loc: Wa.
Well, it is all done now and yes we drilled out all the rivots and rerivoted it back together. What a big improvement!
Tom T.

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#7893 - 05/18/10 12:28 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Tom T]
wrenchTom Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 3
Loc: UMP indiana
service manual allows for #6 screws to be used instead of rivots but I still would like to know those who did get windshield rivoted back in, were Cherry Max rivots used?

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#7904 - 05/18/10 07:09 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: wrenchTom]
Cessna Dude Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6628
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Welcome wrenchTom! Glad to have you on the forum.
_________________________
Due to certain economic uncertainty, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.
Cessna 172, C172, C-172, Cessna Skyhawk fan.
www.cessna172club.com



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#8002 - 05/20/10 09:16 AM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Cessna Dude]
wrenchTom Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 3
Loc: UMP indiana
Thanks for the welcome Dude, looks like you're an active user. I've been noseing around and looks like I will be spending a lot of time in here.

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#8004 - 05/20/10 09:55 AM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Tom T]
agghopp Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 348
Loc: Buckeye State
Originally Posted By: Tom T
Well, it is all done now and yes we drilled out all the rivots and rerivoted it back together. What a big improvement!
Tom T.
What, no pics? frown Tom, how many hours would you say it took to do?
_________________________
'66-G model, O-300 145 HP Conti, "Smooth Sixie"

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#8020 - 05/20/10 01:39 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: agghopp]
wrenchTom Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 3
Loc: UMP indiana
OK I have got a pic up my question is still when rerivoting dit you have to use CherryMax rivots? I dont know if I can reach all of them with a bucking bar. I would rather rivot than screw it back in. I have not done it yet.

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#8223 - 05/25/10 12:51 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: wrenchTom]
Randy Crosby Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 119
Loc: Trapper Creek, Alaska
I worked for a repair shop for many years that was owned by a guy who insisted you could replace the windshield without unriveting the frame, and he was right. Of course by the time you were done the frame was bent out of shape and the paint was scratched or flaking off and it looked like Goober had done the job under a shady tree.

To answer your question Tom, yes you can get to all of the rivets and buck them but you may have to remove some instruments/radios and interior panels and insulation to get to them. Oh and be very patient. I personally think it is worth the effort to do it right, I mean we are talking about an airplane here, but there is nothing "wrong" with using screws or cherrys either. Personal pride type of thing.

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#8563 - 06/01/10 10:09 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Randy Crosby]
steve71e Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 172
Loc: Atlanta, Ga
We never drilled rivets out on our flight school 172s and 152s. We learned the hard way to use only Cessna windshields. They never needed trimming and went right in. Just made sure we did it in the summer when schedule was not an issue. Windshield is much more flexible in warm weather.
_________________________

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#8735 - 06/07/10 06:19 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: wrenchTom]
Bill Rourke Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 56
Loc: Peachtree City, Georgia
Originally Posted By: wrenchTom
service manual allows for #6 screws to be used instead of rivots but I still would like to know those who did get windshield rivoted back in, were Cherry Max rivots used?


I would not use cherry max rivots. They would make the next replacement next to impossible. If saw them used for that purpose on a pre-buy, I would recommend someone pass on the airplane as well.

_________________________
Bill Rourke
www.airplanepanels.com

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#8736 - 06/07/10 09:21 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Bill Rourke]
Randy Crosby Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 119
Loc: Trapper Creek, Alaska
Originally Posted By: Bill Rourke


I would not use cherry max rivots. They would make the next replacement next to impossible. If saw them used for that purpose on a pre-buy, I would recommend someone pass on the airplane as well.



Take a dye grinder with a cut off wheel and carefully grind about 80% of the heads off and punch out stem. Works every time.

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#8745 - 06/09/10 09:23 AM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Randy Crosby]
Bill Rourke Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 56
Loc: Peachtree City, Georgia
Carefully is right; one slip on one (of many) cherry max rivet heads and you have a nice gouge in the skin... Makes an already difficult job much more difficult. Also, don’t forget, you may be the one changing the window again….

This would also make me wonder what other “short cuts” have been taken. IMHO, if it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing right.
_________________________
Bill Rourke
www.airplanepanels.com

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#8842 - 06/11/10 09:12 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Bill Rourke]
Randy Crosby Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 119
Loc: Trapper Creek, Alaska
Originally Posted By: Bill Rourke


This would also make me wonder what other “short cuts” have been taken. IMHO, if it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing right.


I totally agree and always hated using cherrys and only used them as a last resort. However there is a "right" way to install them and there is a "right" way to remove them as described. Almost surgical. Of course so is removing a solid rivet and I have bungled at least one or two that I can remember. mad Also cherry max rivets use an oversized hole so you are already headed down a slippery slope when using them.

Riveting the trim piece back on without distortion is no easy matter either and takes two skilled people with a lot of patience. The trim is thin and has a compound curve that is easy to damage even by an expert. If the windshield is going to be replaced more than once in it's life time I would tend to lean towards screws as the best way to hold the trim piece in place, not so much as it is easier but more in protecting the airplane. If your plane is more of a static display and has to be as original as possible then I would buck me up some rivets.

A good mechanic should realize not all airplanes are treated equally and there are compromises to be made as long as at the end of the day the aircraft is airworthy. Some owners are extremely picky and want their baby treated with the upmost care with no expenses spared and spend more time polishing than flying. While others might be using theirs as a pickup truck and want problems found and fixed correctly but aren't going to win any awards at Oshkosh.




Edited by Randy Crosby (06/11/10 09:15 PM)

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#14467 - 11/08/10 08:39 AM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Randy Crosby]
Sascha Offline
New Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 1
Loc: Germany, Hessen, Bad Hersfeld
Can you tell my about the dimensions of the used rivets? Diameter, Griprange, Type?
I'm going to replace all the windows of my 172M and i've no idea, witch rivets to buy! Thanks for help.

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#21931 - 01/29/11 07:37 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: Sascha]
stellar Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 13
Loc: Canada
Did mine last spring. Used a combination of aluminum cherry max on the difficult to access locations (center) and normal ac rivets in the areas that are easily accessible (sides). Worked great.

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#22154 - 01/30/11 10:04 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: stellar]
n1acguy Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 55
Loc: S. Ca. WHP
I used a windshield from Great Lakes Aeroplastics. It required a lot of trimming and test fitting. Had to be in and out a few times before we got it just right. Even if an OEM from Cessna didn't require any trimming, it would have to do a heck of a lot of flexing to get it in without removing the bottom trim piece. I've heard of the method, but don't know anyone who's actually done it.
We used rivnuts. The trim piece for the windshield isn't structural.
Rear window framing is structural. We used solid rivets for those. I wouldn't use cherry max rivets in place of solid rivets myself.
_________________________
My 2˘ YMMV

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#37214 - 05/20/11 01:06 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: n1acguy]
okfoz Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 3
Loc: Flint, MI, USA
Originally Posted By: n1acguy
I used a windshield from Great Lakes Aeroplastics. It required a lot of trimming and test fitting. Had to be in and out a few times before we got it just right. Even if an OEM from Cessna didn't require any trimming, it would have to do a heck of a lot of flexing to get it in without removing the bottom trim piece. I've heard of the method, but don't know anyone who's actually done it.
We used rivnuts. The trim piece for the windshield isn't structural.
Rear window framing is structural. We used solid rivets for those. I wouldn't use cherry max rivets in place of solid rivets myself.


Alex,
This is John at Great Lakes Aero Products, First I would like to apologize for any problems you had while installing the windshield, second I am curious what kind of trouble you had installing the windshield. Normally I hear how well our windshields compared to anyone else, so to read this is kind of a shock. Typically there's a little trimming here or there, but it sounds like you had more than normal trimming... Ultimately I am just trying to figure out how we could improve our product if I need to or if I actually can...

Thanks.

As to add to the conversation, yes, you can install a windshield without removing the bottom band... I have never had a problem with it bending it or warping the band as mentioned above, but that has been my personal experience... The biggest trick is when you install the windshield to get the top to flex down and get it into the channel at the top (depending on your model)

If anyone is interested I have pictures of an install into a 182... The methods are the same, it is usually a bit easier to install a 172 windshield because most 172 windshields are thinner, at least through about 1979 (note: the R172 XP and the 172RG, always used the thicker 1/4" windshield)

I guess I have to figure out how to upload pics first...

John

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#37221 - 05/20/11 04:01 PM Re: Windshied replacement [Re: okfoz]
Cessna Dude Offline
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6628
Loc: San Antonio, TX
John - You'll find "how to" instructions on posting photos in the new member information section of the forum.

Thanks, and nice to have you as a member.
_________________________
Due to certain economic uncertainty, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.
Cessna 172, C172, C-172, Cessna Skyhawk fan.
www.cessna172club.com



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