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Topic Options
#69321 - 02/24/12 06:13 PM Auto Gas STC
CessnaDudeJr Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 30
Loc: IL, USA
Does anyone on here know which models of 172 can be STC'd for auto gas?

And can the "new" ones (ie... IO-360 powered SP models) fall under this also?

Thanks.
_________________________
1975 C-172M


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#69328 - 02/24/12 07:10 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: CessnaDudeJr]
Bryan Demurat Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Florida, USA
I beleive the auto gas STC is tied more to the engine then the airframe. I will check my STC but I think the engine needed to designed for the old red 80 octane avgas to be elgiable. I will try to post more info tonight for you.

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#69337 - 02/24/12 08:44 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: Bryan Demurat]
CessnaDudeJr Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 30
Loc: IL, USA
Thanks Bryan.

http://www.autofuelstc.com/autofuelstc/pa/Approved_Airframes.html

http://www.autofuelstc.com/autofuelstc/pa/Approved_Engines.html

came across this in my searching. Looks like the newest model to be approved is the 172P.

I found some stuff from 2008 saying Lycoming was seeking approval to run IO-360s on autogas but apparently that never happened.
_________________________
1975 C-172M


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#69412 - 02/25/12 02:04 AM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: CessnaDudeJr]
Bryan Demurat Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 171
Loc: Florida, USA
I see you found the auto gas STC web site. The site should be able to answer all your questions. I have stopped using auto gas in my 172B due to problems in finding ethanol free gas. For the last three year I have been buring 100LL without a problem, but if you are burning 100LL in an engine designed for 80 octane it is recommined that lean the mixture for every phase of flight except take-off. By lean the engine you will reduce the chance of lead fowling on the plugs and value.

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#69443 - 02/25/12 03:29 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: Bryan Demurat]
Propduster Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 1105
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
I was happily burning 100LL and leaning religiously. Still ended up with a stuck exhaust valve this past fall.

I'd put the mogas STC on about a month before it happened, but I guess not quite soon enough. The O-300D only had about 120 hours on it at the time, but from the stone-cold compressions last annual and the reputation of the shop that did the last overhaul, I have few doubts that it was built to very tight tolerances.

We're lucky in that ethanol has made very few inroads into the fuel supply here; if you purchase and burn premium 91 UL, you can be pretty well guaranteed of no contamination.

To make sure that the valves, etc. are still getting adequate lubrication, I add a product called AVP (Aviation Valve Protectant). You add 1 ml per 10 litres, so while it ain't cheap, the $68 bottle will treat something like 640 gallons if fuel.

So far, so good. But after the last episode, I'm probably overly cautious. So, just bought a jug of Alcor TCP (a lead scavenger fuel additive) to take along on the big trip up north this summer, where I won't have a choice except to burn 100LL.

Rick
_________________________
1963 Cessna 172D C-FPEC

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#69454 - 02/25/12 05:44 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: Propduster]
CessnaDudeJr Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 30
Loc: IL, USA
All good info, thanks. I see the air plains 180hp engines are all covered under the stc as well. Kinda makes me re-think getting a new plane. I want something that can run on mogas for the "long haul" (so i dont have to sweat the potential demise of 100LL) and always thought I'd like to upgrade to a 182. But.... If I can get the same payload as a 182 with the air plains engine and still run on mogas, kinda makes more sense to stick with the plane I have now, upgrade to 180hp at overhaul, and keep on trucking!!!

All id get with the 182 is a little more cabin room and a few extra knots. Worth it? Hmmmm.....
_________________________
1975 C-172M


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#69462 - 02/25/12 07:08 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: CessnaDudeJr]
XP Driver Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 2407
Loc: Fairfax, Virginia
With a 182 you also get a constant speed prop and 230hp. You can also get a fuel injected engine if you go for a newer one, and fuel injections makes ALL the differnce - bye, bye carb heat.

The 182 really is much roomier inside than our 172s are. If I could have afforded it I would have gotten a 182. Instead, I choose the R172K, Hawk XPII which gave me the constant speed prop, fuel injected engine and exta HP (210) that I was looking for. It is sort of a poor man's 182. I do miss the extra cabin space of a real 182 though.
_________________________


Once you go XP you never go back!

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#69465 - 02/25/12 07:21 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: XP Driver]
CessnaDudeJr Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 30
Loc: IL, USA
XP driver,

Good points! I have a few hours in various 182s. I know they are great planes, and certainly would fit the bill for what I want to do with it.

Any fuel-injected 182 cannot be run on MOGAS, which would eliminate it from consideration for me.

The cabin space is nice....but I'm just oh so attached to my 172! smile
_________________________
1975 C-172M


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#69547 - 02/26/12 05:33 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: CessnaDudeJr]
AConner Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 20
Loc: Texas
I started running ethanol-free unleaded in my plane last month, which saves me about a $1.50 a gallon. I test for ethanol every time I buy gas to make sure it IS ethanol-free. The 0-300 really likes 87 octane and I'm not having the fouled plug problems anymore. It also seems to be getting better fuel burn. Flew for 1.2 hours the other day and put 6 gallons back in to top it off. That was with leaning and cruise around 90. I'm using pump gas from now on or until I can still get it.


Edited by AConner (02/26/12 05:34 PM)

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#69610 - 02/27/12 09:47 AM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: AConner]
Nightowl Offline
Club Sponsor/Speed Demon
Gold Pilot

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 1826
Loc: Northwest lower Michigan
Ethanol-free MoGas may become as hard to find as 100LL in the future. Just something to consider. Politics as usual.

John
_________________________
CP-ASEL-IA
'77 C172N, AirPlains 180 hp conversion

Our sigmap has been flown entirely using aircraft with capabilities at or below those of the C-172.


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#69625 - 02/27/12 02:52 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: Nightowl]
Propduster Offline
Gold Pilot

Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 1105
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Originally Posted By: Nightowl
Ethanol-free MoGas may become as hard to find as 100LL in the future. Just something to consider. Politics as usual.

John


Hopefully, the tree-hugger rebound (i.e. the growing reqlization that growing corn to make ethanol takes more energy than it uses, and coincidently removes human food from the earth's dwindling supply) will nip this in the bud.
_________________________
1963 Cessna 172D C-FPEC

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#69947 - 03/01/12 06:16 AM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: Propduster]
Ed M Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 134
Loc: Oregon, USA
EAA also has autogas stc http://www.eaa.org/autofuel/autogas/approved.asp.

I second testing each batch for ethanol, I use the fuel sample tester that has a line marked water at the bottom and percent lines immediately above and a line marked gas near the top. To use, fill to water line with water, then on top of that, fill to gas line with the gas in question. I then use a rubber stopper in the top and shake well and let settle a few minutes, since the ethanol preferes to mix with water the volume of the water will increase above the original water line if any ethanol is present and can be read on the percentage scale. I test any thing questionable prior to putting in the plane tank.

Oregon requires ethanol in auto gas but it can be found at some stations as race fuel or some jobbers sell ethanol free bulk fuel.

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#70368 - 03/03/12 05:48 AM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: Ed M]
CessnaDudeJr Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 30
Loc: IL, USA
www.pure-gas.org

This website has lists of all non-ethanol gas stations. Who knows if its totally complete but it looks pretty extensive to me.

Just ordered my Petersen STC yesterday! smile
_________________________
1975 C-172M


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#74033 - 04/01/12 10:25 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: CessnaDudeJr]
goose Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 03/14/10
Posts: 24
Loc: michigan
I have a reliable supply of ethanol-free mogas at marinas around Michigan ... saves a bucket of money and makes my old plane smile
_________________________
Tom
1963 C-172D


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#74049 - 04/02/12 01:36 AM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: goose]
BGF Yankee Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 347
Loc: Tennessee, USA
I am completely for anything that costs less, but I sometimes feel that in the end we only hurt ourselves...well, at least here in Tennessee. The State derives money for airport improvements almost solely from a tax on Aviation Gasoline and Jet Fuel...if we aren't buying either, we aren't paying a tax that supports airports, and therefore their continued improvement. I get it, I get it...Mogas is much cheaper, but at a certain point we will be cutting our noses off to spite our face. I can argue both directions here, but I just wanted to offer this point up for discussion...is it the same in other states?
_________________________
Enjoy my aviation photos at - http://www.flickr.com/photos/aviatorisu/

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#74096 - 04/02/12 05:50 AM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: BGF Yankee]
Adger Smith Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 02/27/12
Posts: 188
Loc: East Texas
BGF, are you in politics or on a "Board" of some kind?


Edited by SixPackRacer (04/02/12 05:52 AM)
_________________________
Adger Smith
Adger Smith Performance Engines
2802 W 7th St
Texarkana Tx 75501
903 794 7223 shop
903 824 4924 cell

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#74170 - 04/02/12 07:48 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: Adger Smith]
goose Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 03/14/10
Posts: 24
Loc: michigan
philosophy aside, mogas is cheaper for me and better for my plane
_________________________
Tom
1963 C-172D


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#74282 - 04/03/12 02:48 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: Adger Smith]
BGF Yankee Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 347
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Absolutely not...I have no taste for politics whatsoever. On the other hand, I CAN argue for or against just about any topic out there, lol! Believe me, there are few things that upset me more than the high cost of gas out there, and while I know it's not the entire reason it's so high, I think some people don't know that a small part of their avgas purchase (if they make one) goes right back into improving airports in some states. Just wanted to throw that out there for discussion, good or bad. And Tom, I know that is true for some aircraft, but I know guys at my own airport that are disgustingly cheap...they own a $80,000 (technically) high-performance aircraft, but yet will not pay for the cost of avgas at their own airport when it supports improvements there. Funny how they are also the first to complain about problems with things such as the condition of the ramp around their plane-port or T-hangar. Pfft.


Edited by BGF Yankee (04/03/12 02:52 PM)
_________________________
Enjoy my aviation photos at - http://www.flickr.com/photos/aviatorisu/

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#74288 - 04/03/12 04:52 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: BGF Yankee]
Adger Smith Offline
Second in Command

Registered: 02/27/12
Posts: 188
Loc: East Texas
You should be... Not many people see the big picture like you do.
I've been in business for over 42 years and have seen just mail order go to internet sales. I've argued with people about the demise of sales taxes and watched property taxes grow higher. Why, just because of the point you have made. If the taxes aren't paid by sales tax revenue the govt. will tax you in other ways. Permits and fees are very popular. School Boards are very good at raising the millage rate & then using the extra money unwisely. Back in the 90's I decided to get involved and was appointed to the local planning and zonining commission. Worked for 11 years on planning & business growth. I worked on the Chanber of Commerce board for 3 years and now 4 years on the local school board. I've always told people that by getting involved in my community politics I could make things better. I can also take the place of some clown that is there with his hand out for what he can get & makes bad decisions. Now that I'm back flying I'm getting involved with the airport. I decided to do more than complain. I chose to give back to the community that has given my family a great place to live.
_________________________
Adger Smith
Adger Smith Performance Engines
2802 W 7th St
Texarkana Tx 75501
903 794 7223 shop
903 824 4924 cell

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#74340 - 04/03/12 11:19 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: Adger Smith]
31echo Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 77
Loc: Wellington Florida (West Palm)
The thing that bothers me is when two airports that are close together and presumably pay the same for fuel, collect the same for taxes, can have such a huge difference in price.

When I was the airport manager at our private I was in charge of buying fuel. Needless to say our volume was not very high. Our rate we charged residents was 10% over cost. We were still $1.00 plus a gallon cheaper (this was a few years ago). Just as a data point. I just paid $4.85 at home. KFMY (Ft. Meyers) is listed at $4.99 self serve. They are usually one of the lowest in South Florida. KLNA Lantana which is the closest public airport and where I teach at times is now $6.32.
_________________________
Michael J. Broad
ASEL AMEL CFI for hire!
michaeljbroad@yahoo.com
(C172, PA28, PA32, BE35, BE23, Light Sport)
172N Airplains 180 HP

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#74352 - 04/04/12 02:15 AM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: 31echo]
BGF Yankee Offline
Pilot in Command

Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 347
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Michael, I'm in the same boat that you were in now. My observation is that some people are more dependent on fuel sales than others. Still others don't price their fuel the same, i.e. some FBOs will price their fuel based on what they actually paid for it. Others, like mine, fluctuate their fuel prices on a weekly basis to better help absorb cost changes from the supplier. There is no rhyme or reason to yet others...it's all personal preference. I WILL say that 10% over cost is almost unheard of these days. I would say that 20-30% is more reflective (spread across the board) for avgas. That being said, if anyone ever has any questions about something from the perspective of an Airport or FBO manager, I will be happy to give you the straight dope. I have no hidden agenda...
_________________________
Enjoy my aviation photos at - http://www.flickr.com/photos/aviatorisu/

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#88432 - 08/09/12 11:56 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: CessnaDudeJr]
Katie Church Offline
Safety Pilot

Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 24
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: CessnaDude
www.pure-gas.org

This website has lists of all non-ethanol gas stations. Who knows if its totally complete but it looks pretty extensive to me.

Just ordered my Petersen STC yesterday! smile


www.pure-gas.org is a great resource!
_________________________
Katie Church
Wellington, KS KEGT
www.AirPlains.com

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#88655 - 08/11/12 06:41 PM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: Katie Church]
Glenn Darr Offline
Club Sponsor
Gold Pilot

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 1708
Loc: Arizona
maybe with the national drought this summer, not much ethanol will be made. With a poor corn crop, what there is of it will be used for food products. That is probably a big tee-hee!!
_________________________
Glenn
1969 172K
KAVQ

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#88780 - 08/13/12 12:46 AM Re: Auto Gas STC [Re: Glenn Darr]
vettdvr Offline
Club Sponsor
Diamond Pilot

Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 7724
Loc: Slidell La
IN our state the fuel profits go to the Parish / City Coffers not to the airport. Fed funds make airport improvements. IF the FBO can get a foot hold and fuel sales perhaps improvements will come from the sale of fuel. I do get it the fuel price support the airport but not in all cases. The city has gotten greedy and doesn't plan to have an FBO get any fuel sales and therefore we have NO FBO can can't even get an alternator belt changed here.

My plane is MOGAS approved and the previous owner ran it with ethanol free gas. There is a statioin 1 mile from my home that sells this fuel. Today I topped off with LL100 but may consider MOGAS. IF an FBO starts up I will buy LL100 from the airport.


Edited by vettdvr (08/13/12 12:49 AM)
_________________________
Vettdvr

Single/Multi/instrument/type/commercial But then I am still learning.

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